From agrier at poofygoof.com Sat Jan 6 06:25:26 2001 From: agrier at poofygoof.com (Aaron J. Grier) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:25:26 -0800 Subject: [pups] RL0{1,2} platters available in Portland, OR Message-ID: <20010105122526.G15812@goldberry.poofy.goof.com> my company was recently doing some housecleaning and unearthed about a dozen RL01 and RL02 platters, along with a bunch of 8" RT-11 floppies, and doc set for RT-11. seeing that used platters seem to still be rather common, I'm sure I can talk accounting into letting them go for the price of shipping. Likewise with the floppies and documentation. (of course Portland people can pick up for free, or if you're in SE PDX, I can deliver!) We have the original DEC packaging for many of the platters, and can ship worldwide via UPS, DHL, etc... I guess to bring things back on topic a little, what's the background / specs of the RL-series drives? I know they're 5 and 10MB, but that's about it. What interface boards were available for the various PDPs and VAXen? How fast(?)/reliable/cranky were these things? :) -- Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier at poofygoof.com "[I]f you can find the purity in hardcore and gabber, I guess you're already screwed up enough." -- Drew Smith From pino at dohd.org Tue Jan 16 00:53:15 2001 From: pino at dohd.org (Martijn van Buul) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:53:15 +0100 Subject: [pups] Stupid question.. Message-ID: <20010115155315.A16975@mud.stack.nl> Hey. I'm playing around with a /53 running 2.11BSD, trying to port some software, and I have a (probably stupid) problem: environ. When I write a simple program like #include extern char **environ; void main(argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { printf("Hello world!"); environ=environ; } and compile & link it using cc ("cc -o test test.c"), things go fine, however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc") I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however, the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas? -- Martijn van Buul - Pino at dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08435 for pups-liszt; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:22:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Tue Jan 16 08:15:45 2001 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:15:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] Stupid question.. Message-ID: <200101152215.f0FMFjJ26746@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From: Martijn van Buul > > however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc") > I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that > including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however, > the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually > linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas? Try placing /lib/crt0.o before the test.o: ld -o test /lib/crt0.o test.o -lc on another note it's usually not a good idea to call a program 'test' because when you are least expecting it you will end up running /bin/test and wonder what is wrong. Steven From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Jan 18 06:27:53 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:27:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] Ultrix-11 Latest News Message-ID: It was pointed out to me that I was remiss in not making this announcement here as well as on USENET. Mea culpa, mea culpa. ------- Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the Net. telnet to 134.198.175.226 login as guest password is ultrix11 Don't expect much. As I said, it's only an 11/23+. It has 3M of memory and an RA81 disk. Things like ftp "run", but they don't "work". Look to be lack of buffer space, but without any documentation I have not found out how to tune it any more than it is now. Of course, if I ever get an 11/73 running I could build a split I&D system which should be considerably better. Please don't try to crash it. It is likely to do that all by itself anyway and you would just keep others from trying it out. No, it's not running any critical applications. If you want to move some code over to try the compiler or something, try "gkermit". But remember, it won;t stream and it needs real small packets. I await any comments and am still hoping someone will find a box of Ultrix-11 docs sitting in a closet somewhere that I will gladly pay to ship here. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From bill at cs.scranton.edu Sat Jan 20 07:22:17 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:22:17 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: Ultrix-11 Latest News References: <944t6p$1o3d$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> <944vup$3e6$1@news.IAEhv.nl> Message-ID: <200101192122.QAA18312@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> [This is a courtesy copy of a message which was also posted to the newsgroup(s) shown in the header.] In article <944vup$3e6$1 at news.IAEhv.nl>, "Hans Vlems" writes: |> Bill, |> |> tried to telnet but no joy |> |> Bill Gunshannon heeft geschreven in bericht |> <944t6p$1o3d$1 at info.cs.uofs.edu>... |> >Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the |> >Net. |> > |> >telnet to 134.198.175.226 |> >login as guest |> >password is ultrix11 Well, the bad news it it appears I forgot that at one time no the distnat past TTL was set to some very low number. If you are more than a couple hops away from the University of Scranton you won't be able to get in yet. However, good news on two fronts. I have put up the sources and if I have the time I will try to find the offending bit this weekend. (Anybody who remembers fixing this in any Ultrix-11 or Ultrix-32 when it happened originaly feel free to save me the trouble of searching through the source.) the other good news is I may be acquiring an 11/93 shortly. If I do and it actually still works (one never knows inthese acquisitions) I will probably be putting Ultrix-11 on it and building a Split I&D system. That will then become the system I will put on the Net to play with. Hsve a nice weekend, all. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Mon Jan 29 11:24:43 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:24:43 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Message-ID: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Hi all, I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable unless you have a PDP-11/45. I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in responding. Thanks all, Warren struct vtdevice { int rcsr,rbuf; int tcsr,tbuf; }; #define NVT 2 struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ (struct vtdevice *)0, (struct vtdevice *)-1 }; /* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ char vtgetc() { register c; VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { lotim--; if (lotim==0) hitim--; if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } } c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); } vtputc(c) register c; { register s; while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; } Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15283 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:14:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From robin at ruffnready.co.uk Tue Jan 30 00:11:33 2001 From: robin at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:11:33 +0000 Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver In-Reply-To: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> References: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: Warren, Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be universal across all PDP11s. Robin In message <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey writes >Hi all, > I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 >with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and >install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver > >At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code >so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: >http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable >unless you have a PDP-11/45. > >I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't >find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 >kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. > >My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone >equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? > >I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in >responding. > >Thanks all, > Warren > > >struct vtdevice { > int rcsr,rbuf; > int tcsr,tbuf; >}; > >#define NVT 2 >struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { > (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ > (struct vtdevice *)0, > (struct vtdevice *)-1 >}; > >/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ >char vtgetc() >{ > register c; > > VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; > > while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { > lotim--; > if (lotim==0) hitim--; > if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } > } > c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); >} > >vtputc(c) >register c; >{ > register s; > > while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; > s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; > VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; >} ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin at ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 07:37:01 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:37:01 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver In-Reply-To: from Robin Birch at "Jan 29, 2001 02:11:33 pm" Message-ID: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18242 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:14:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca Tue Jan 30 08:12:40 2001 From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:12:40 -0500 Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Message-ID: <200101292214.JAA18238@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18661 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:07:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From iking at microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 09:19:45 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:45 -0800 Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB07@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> That's why I've inquired of Warren about using the DZ-11 as the pseudo-device. I also have a console input (DL-11, from memory). The input silo is potentially a benefit, but it's not a panacea by any means -- it has to be handled pretty carefully. -- isk -----Original Message----- From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:13 PM To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19302 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:59:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From grog at lemis.com Tue Jan 30 11:56:50 2001 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030 Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation In-Reply-To: <20010129184128.50518.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com>; from n_shankar_2001@yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:41:28AM -0800 References: <20010129184128.50518.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010130122650.D48490@wantadilla.lemis.com> On Monday, 29 January 2001 at 10:41:28 -0800, nanduri shankar wrote: > hello sir/madam, > i want to know the information about > the bsd 4.3 for vax machines . > let u provide me documentation regarding this topic. > iam waiting for your earliest reply. The FreeBSD documentation project doesn't deal with 4.3BSD, nor with Vaxen. Check the UNIX Heritage Society at http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you can get it for the Vax. Greg -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19420 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:24:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Jan 30 12:19:40 2001 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 01 18:19:40 PST Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation Message-ID: <0101300219.AA03337@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Greg Lehey wrote: > Check the UNIX Heritage Society at > http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you > can get it for the Vax. For VAX 4.3BSD UNIX specifically, check out: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/ -- Michael Sokolov Public Service Agent International Engineering and Science Task Force 1351 VINE AVE APT 27 Phone: +1-714-738-5409 FULLERTON CA 92833-4291 USA (home office) E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19895 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:25:17 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:17 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] Re: new VTserver (was DZ-11 driver) In-Reply-To: <200101290215.NAA06982@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden at "Jan 29, 2001 01:15:11 pm" Message-ID: <200101300425.f0U4PIO32651@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin Done! See http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver and http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.html for details. At the present I have Ersatz-2.0 running as a PDP-11/34A, one RK05 and just the console. I have my tape server connected to the serial console line, and I'm bringing in an RK05 disk image: Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.0 $ Running command stty -f /dev/ttyid1 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts Tape records are: 0 tinyboot 1 copy 2 root.img Opening port /dev/ttyd1 .... Port open E11>show cpu Emulation: PDP-11/34a, FP11A NOASR, NOCCR, NOCDR, NOCHR, NOCMDR, NOCPUERR, NOCSM, NODSPACE, NODUALREGSET, NODESTFIRST, EIS, NOFPBACKOUT, FPP, NOHALT4, NOJMPPLUS2, JMP4, NOKTJ11B, NOMBR, NOMFPT, NOMMTRAPS, MMU, NOMMU22, NOMR, NOMSEA, NOMSER, MXPS, ODD, NOPARCSR, NOPCR, NOPIRQ, PSWIO, NOQBUS, NOSIZE, NOSPL, SR, NOSR1, NOSTACKLIM, NOSUPMODE, NOSYSID, NOTSTSET, UNDOAUTO, NOUMAP Host: Cyrix 486, NPX E11>g 70000 Opened tinyboot rrrrrrrrrrrrrr EOF 40tinyboot from virtual tape server Load tape record: 1 Opened copy rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcopy Infile: vt(0,0,2) Outfile: rk(0,0,0) Opened root.img rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 100K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr So no need for DZ-11, but many thanks to Norman, John and others who wrote code for me. I'll probably still try to add DZ-11 support. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19994 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:44:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:43:34 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <200101300443.f0U4hYh32768@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King , who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21488 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:27:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From rdonkin at bigfoot.com Tue Jan 30 17:55:19 2001 From: rdonkin at bigfoot.com (Richard Donkin) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:55:19 +0000 Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails Message-ID: <3A767367.3B2FDC99@bigfoot.com> Hi, I have got 2.11 BSD (from the rp_unknown disk) up and working on the Supnik 2.3+BB1 simulator, configured as follows: set cpu 22b set cpu 2048K at rp0 mydisks/2.11BSD/2.11_rp_unknown boot rp While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. The makefile is: date2: date2.c cc -o date2 -c date2.c - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way Is this a known problem that will be fixed by patches (none applied yet as the simulator is not networked)? Or do I need to provide more memory? Some other info: # uname -a 2.11BSD whistler-2bsd 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998 root at pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON PDP11 By the way, if anyone else has 2.11 BSD in unpatched state and wants to set the date to 2001, email me for a copy of the updated date2.c program. Apart from this problem, 2.11BSD is working very nicely - I'm impressed that such a feature-rich Unix can even be run on a PDP-11! Cheers, Richard Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA22856 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:29:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From robin at ruffnready.co.uk Wed Jan 31 01:26:10 2001 From: robin at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:10 +0000 Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver In-Reply-To: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> References: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: In message <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey writes >In article by Robin Birch: >> Warren, >> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a >> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You >> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more >> complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be >> universal across all PDP11s. >> >> Robin > >I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) >I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. > >If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial >line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate >to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? > > Warren Well, the terminal emulator doesn't have to be very sophisticated as once the thing was running properly then you would use what ever the PC system had installed. The "two separate" would probably be easier to create but it occurs to me that many PCs only have one serial line and the only serial line that is common to all 11s is the console therefore only needing a single driver. Robin ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin at ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA23022 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:57:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From iking at microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 17:19:44 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB0D@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. (I even have some original shipping boxes.) BTW, the mail Warren cites below was sent before I had really dug into my 11/34's manuals; I have 124kW of MOS memory in the machine, and RSX-11M can use it all in a "mapped" configuration. Also, if I am going to transfer a disk image, I have another DL-11 I am going to install to make use of Warren's VTServer program. TIA -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King , who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23100 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:05:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Wed Jan 31 02:04:16 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails In-Reply-To: <3A767367.3B2FDC99@bigfoot.com> from Richard Donkin at "Jan 30, 2001 07:55:19 am" Message-ID: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > The makefile is: > > date2: date2.c > cc -o date2 -c date2.c Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program and not produce an executable. > > - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way > -- Dr. Mark Green mark at cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23775 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:22:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Wed Jan 31 04:20:58 2001 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein at ucsd.edu > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > From: Ian King > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" , > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > onto his real disk. > > Many thanks all! > > Warren > Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23853 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:31:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 31 04:30:14 2001 From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <3A770836.5E42CF2B@tampabay.rr.com> I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein at ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King > > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" , > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > > From iking at microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 03:08:59 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:08:59 -0800 Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB00@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Warren, I have the DZ-11 docs; I'll scan the relevant sections and mail it to you. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 5:25 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Hi all, I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable unless you have a PDP-11/45. I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in responding. Thanks all, Warren struct vtdevice { int rcsr,rbuf; int tcsr,tbuf; }; #define NVT 2 struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ (struct vtdevice *)0, (struct vtdevice *)-1 }; /* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ char vtgetc() { register c; VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { lotim--; if (lotim==0) hitim--; if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } } c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); } vtputc(c) register c; { register s; while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; } Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24991 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:17:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In-Reply-To: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu> from Carl Lowenstein at "Jan 30, 2001 10:20:58 am" Message-ID: <200101302213.f0UMDUQ35508@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25322 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:28:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From iking at microsoft.com Wed Jan 31 08:38:15 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) to spray it onto a disk. Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:30 AM To: Carl Lowenstein Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein at ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King > > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" , > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > > Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25337 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:29:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 31 09:27:56 2001 From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:56 -0500 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8@tampabay.rr.com> Hi Ian, Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh. Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine. In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0' the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^) Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape so there is no root password set... Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... maybe better to let it live back in 1975... I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form... Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^) Cheers, -- Ken Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. > > Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25365 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Wed Jan 31 09:30:55 2001 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <200101302330.PAA29420@chiton.ucsd.edu> > From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > From: Warren Toomey > Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > To: Carl Lowenstein > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) > CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In article by Carl Lowenstein: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > > > carl > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > That's the problem. > > Cheers, > Warren Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so. There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this one would be a real show-stopper. The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible. I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must be the place where such things happen. I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and RTI instructions to set the processor priority. carl Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25390 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:35:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From rdonkin at bigfoot.com Wed Jan 31 09:33:02 2001 From: rdonkin at bigfoot.com (Richard Donkin) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:33:02 +0000 Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails References: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3A774F2E.46106B82@bigfoot.com> Mark Green wrote: > > > > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > > The makefile is: > > > > date2: date2.c > > cc -o date2 -c date2.c > Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program > and not produce an executable. Ooops... I must have been up too late when I came up with that one. Thanks Richard Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26019 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:46:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From bill at cs.scranton.edu Wed Jan 31 11:45:20 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In-Reply-To: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8@tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) > > Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... > maybe better to let it live back in 1975... > I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to install a fixed "date" command. Yes, it is only the date command that is not Y2K ready. First: Set the date to 9912312359 Second: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2000. Third: Set the date to 12312359 Fourth: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2001. Fifth: Set the month, day, hour and minute to the current time. Voila. Primitive, but it works. I guess I could try building the GNU date command on Ultrix-11 or maybe just get the sources from FreeBSD. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27811 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:07:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From iking at microsoft.com Wed Jan 31 16:58:53 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:58:53 -0800 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1A@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Again, I'd be glad to do things like this, if I could get an image to run on an emulator -- that's been a goal. I've tried various 'processors' (in emulation), but not been successful at booting the Unix kernel. Can anyone say, "I booted image X on emulator Y and had a successfully running Unix"? If so, please please please share your experience -- I haven't been able to boot anything out of the PUPS archive on the E11 emulator (held out by some to be the best). And, if/when I have success, I promise to share a field report. :-) -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:31 PM To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > From: Warren Toomey > Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > To: Carl Lowenstein > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) > CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In article by Carl Lowenstein: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > > > carl > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > That's the problem. > > Cheers, > Warren Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so. There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this one would be a real show-stopper. The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible. I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must be the place where such things happen. I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and RTI instructions to set the processor priority. carl Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27852 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:13:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From iking at microsoft.com Wed Jan 31 17:05:55 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:55 -0800 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1C@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Ken, if you send it to my personal email account, there's no size restriction (I run the mail server); it's iking at killthewabbit.org. I would greatly appreciate your sending it to me. BTW, I've been using 1977 (the year I graduated fron high school) on my PDP-11 under RSX-11; some tools won't accept the "01" year. :-) Cheers -- isk PS: I've hired a lot of Waterloo folks -- smart buggers, the lot of them. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM To: Ian King Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Hi Ian, Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh. Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine. In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0' the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^) Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape so there is no root password set... Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... maybe better to let it live back in 1975... I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form... Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^) Cheers, -- Ken Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. > > Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29613 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:21:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 31 23:20:06 2001 From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:06 -0500 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <3A781106.F7302A5A@tampabay.rr.com> Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently damaged: gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc. I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file). I did not try and run the MD5 list yet. But this is an example of why I had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive... B^) -- Ken Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA30614 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:08:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From agrier at poofygoof.com Sat Jan 6 06:25:26 2001 From: agrier at poofygoof.com (Aaron J. Grier) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:25:26 -0800 Subject: [pups] RL0{1,2} platters available in Portland, OR Message-ID: <20010105122526.G15812@goldberry.poofy.goof.com> my company was recently doing some housecleaning and unearthed about a dozen RL01 and RL02 platters, along with a bunch of 8" RT-11 floppies, and doc set for RT-11. seeing that used platters seem to still be rather common, I'm sure I can talk accounting into letting them go for the price of shipping. Likewise with the floppies and documentation. (of course Portland people can pick up for free, or if you're in SE PDX, I can deliver!) We have the original DEC packaging for many of the platters, and can ship worldwide via UPS, DHL, etc... I guess to bring things back on topic a little, what's the background / specs of the RL-series drives? I know they're 5 and 10MB, but that's about it. What interface boards were available for the various PDPs and VAXen? How fast(?)/reliable/cranky were these things? :) -- Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier at poofygoof.com "[I]f you can find the purity in hardcore and gabber, I guess you're already screwed up enough." -- Drew Smith From pino at dohd.org Tue Jan 16 00:53:15 2001 From: pino at dohd.org (Martijn van Buul) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:53:15 +0100 Subject: [pups] Stupid question.. Message-ID: <20010115155315.A16975@mud.stack.nl> Hey. I'm playing around with a /53 running 2.11BSD, trying to port some software, and I have a (probably stupid) problem: environ. When I write a simple program like #include extern char **environ; void main(argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { printf("Hello world!"); environ=environ; } and compile & link it using cc ("cc -o test test.c"), things go fine, however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc") I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however, the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas? -- Martijn van Buul - Pino at dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08435 for pups-liszt; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:22:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From sms at moe.2bsd.com Tue Jan 16 08:15:45 2001 From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:15:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] Stupid question.. Message-ID: <200101152215.f0FMFjJ26746@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From: Martijn van Buul > > however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc") > I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that > including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however, > the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually > linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas? Try placing /lib/crt0.o before the test.o: ld -o test /lib/crt0.o test.o -lc on another note it's usually not a good idea to call a program 'test' because when you are least expecting it you will end up running /bin/test and wonder what is wrong. Steven From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Jan 18 06:27:53 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:27:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] Ultrix-11 Latest News Message-ID: It was pointed out to me that I was remiss in not making this announcement here as well as on USENET. Mea culpa, mea culpa. ------- Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the Net. telnet to 134.198.175.226 login as guest password is ultrix11 Don't expect much. As I said, it's only an 11/23+. It has 3M of memory and an RA81 disk. Things like ftp "run", but they don't "work". Look to be lack of buffer space, but without any documentation I have not found out how to tune it any more than it is now. Of course, if I ever get an 11/73 running I could build a split I&D system which should be considerably better. Please don't try to crash it. It is likely to do that all by itself anyway and you would just keep others from trying it out. No, it's not running any critical applications. If you want to move some code over to try the compiler or something, try "gkermit". But remember, it won;t stream and it needs real small packets. I await any comments and am still hoping someone will find a box of Ultrix-11 docs sitting in a closet somewhere that I will gladly pay to ship here. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From bill at cs.scranton.edu Sat Jan 20 07:22:17 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:22:17 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: Ultrix-11 Latest News References: <944t6p$1o3d$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> <944vup$3e6$1@news.IAEhv.nl> Message-ID: <200101192122.QAA18312@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> [This is a courtesy copy of a message which was also posted to the newsgroup(s) shown in the header.] In article <944vup$3e6$1 at news.IAEhv.nl>, "Hans Vlems" writes: |> Bill, |> |> tried to telnet but no joy |> |> Bill Gunshannon heeft geschreven in bericht |> <944t6p$1o3d$1 at info.cs.uofs.edu>... |> >Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the |> >Net. |> > |> >telnet to 134.198.175.226 |> >login as guest |> >password is ultrix11 Well, the bad news it it appears I forgot that at one time no the distnat past TTL was set to some very low number. If you are more than a couple hops away from the University of Scranton you won't be able to get in yet. However, good news on two fronts. I have put up the sources and if I have the time I will try to find the offending bit this weekend. (Anybody who remembers fixing this in any Ultrix-11 or Ultrix-32 when it happened originaly feel free to save me the trouble of searching through the source.) the other good news is I may be acquiring an 11/93 shortly. If I do and it actually still works (one never knows inthese acquisitions) I will probably be putting Ultrix-11 on it and building a Split I&D system. That will then become the system I will put on the Net to play with. Hsve a nice weekend, all. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Mon Jan 29 11:24:43 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:24:43 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Message-ID: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Hi all, I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable unless you have a PDP-11/45. I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in responding. Thanks all, Warren struct vtdevice { int rcsr,rbuf; int tcsr,tbuf; }; #define NVT 2 struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ (struct vtdevice *)0, (struct vtdevice *)-1 }; /* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ char vtgetc() { register c; VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { lotim--; if (lotim==0) hitim--; if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } } c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); } vtputc(c) register c; { register s; while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; } Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15283 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:14:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From robin at ruffnready.co.uk Tue Jan 30 00:11:33 2001 From: robin at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:11:33 +0000 Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver In-Reply-To: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> References: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: Warren, Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be universal across all PDP11s. Robin In message <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey writes >Hi all, > I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 >with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and >install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver > >At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code >so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: >http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable >unless you have a PDP-11/45. > >I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't >find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 >kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. > >My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone >equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? > >I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in >responding. > >Thanks all, > Warren > > >struct vtdevice { > int rcsr,rbuf; > int tcsr,tbuf; >}; > >#define NVT 2 >struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { > (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ > (struct vtdevice *)0, > (struct vtdevice *)-1 >}; > >/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ >char vtgetc() >{ > register c; > > VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; > > while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { > lotim--; > if (lotim==0) hitim--; > if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } > } > c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); >} > >vtputc(c) >register c; >{ > register s; > > while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; > s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; > VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; >} ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin at ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 07:37:01 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:37:01 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver In-Reply-To: from Robin Birch at "Jan 29, 2001 02:11:33 pm" Message-ID: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18242 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:14:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca Tue Jan 30 08:12:40 2001 From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:12:40 -0500 Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Message-ID: <200101292214.JAA18238@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18661 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:07:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From iking at microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 09:19:45 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:45 -0800 Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB07@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> That's why I've inquired of Warren about using the DZ-11 as the pseudo-device. I also have a console input (DL-11, from memory). The input silo is potentially a benefit, but it's not a panacea by any means -- it has to be handled pretty carefully. -- isk -----Original Message----- From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:13 PM To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19302 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:59:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From grog at lemis.com Tue Jan 30 11:56:50 2001 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030 Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation In-Reply-To: <20010129184128.50518.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com>; from n_shankar_2001@yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:41:28AM -0800 References: <20010129184128.50518.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010130122650.D48490@wantadilla.lemis.com> On Monday, 29 January 2001 at 10:41:28 -0800, nanduri shankar wrote: > hello sir/madam, > i want to know the information about > the bsd 4.3 for vax machines . > let u provide me documentation regarding this topic. > iam waiting for your earliest reply. The FreeBSD documentation project doesn't deal with 4.3BSD, nor with Vaxen. Check the UNIX Heritage Society at http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you can get it for the Vax. Greg -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19420 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:24:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Jan 30 12:19:40 2001 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 01 18:19:40 PST Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation Message-ID: <0101300219.AA03337@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Greg Lehey wrote: > Check the UNIX Heritage Society at > http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you > can get it for the Vax. For VAX 4.3BSD UNIX specifically, check out: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/ -- Michael Sokolov Public Service Agent International Engineering and Science Task Force 1351 VINE AVE APT 27 Phone: +1-714-738-5409 FULLERTON CA 92833-4291 USA (home office) E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19895 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:25:17 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:17 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] Re: new VTserver (was DZ-11 driver) In-Reply-To: <200101290215.NAA06982@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden at "Jan 29, 2001 01:15:11 pm" Message-ID: <200101300425.f0U4PIO32651@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin Done! See http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver and http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.html for details. At the present I have Ersatz-2.0 running as a PDP-11/34A, one RK05 and just the console. I have my tape server connected to the serial console line, and I'm bringing in an RK05 disk image: Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.0 $ Running command stty -f /dev/ttyid1 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts Tape records are: 0 tinyboot 1 copy 2 root.img Opening port /dev/ttyd1 .... Port open E11>show cpu Emulation: PDP-11/34a, FP11A NOASR, NOCCR, NOCDR, NOCHR, NOCMDR, NOCPUERR, NOCSM, NODSPACE, NODUALREGSET, NODESTFIRST, EIS, NOFPBACKOUT, FPP, NOHALT4, NOJMPPLUS2, JMP4, NOKTJ11B, NOMBR, NOMFPT, NOMMTRAPS, MMU, NOMMU22, NOMR, NOMSEA, NOMSER, MXPS, ODD, NOPARCSR, NOPCR, NOPIRQ, PSWIO, NOQBUS, NOSIZE, NOSPL, SR, NOSR1, NOSTACKLIM, NOSUPMODE, NOSYSID, NOTSTSET, UNDOAUTO, NOUMAP Host: Cyrix 486, NPX E11>g 70000 Opened tinyboot rrrrrrrrrrrrrr EOF 40tinyboot from virtual tape server Load tape record: 1 Opened copy rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcopy Infile: vt(0,0,2) Outfile: rk(0,0,0) Opened root.img rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 100K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr So no need for DZ-11, but many thanks to Norman, John and others who wrote code for me. I'll probably still try to add DZ-11 support. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19994 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:44:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:43:34 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <200101300443.f0U4hYh32768@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King , who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21488 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:27:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From rdonkin at bigfoot.com Tue Jan 30 17:55:19 2001 From: rdonkin at bigfoot.com (Richard Donkin) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:55:19 +0000 Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails Message-ID: <3A767367.3B2FDC99@bigfoot.com> Hi, I have got 2.11 BSD (from the rp_unknown disk) up and working on the Supnik 2.3+BB1 simulator, configured as follows: set cpu 22b set cpu 2048K at rp0 mydisks/2.11BSD/2.11_rp_unknown boot rp While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. The makefile is: date2: date2.c cc -o date2 -c date2.c - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way Is this a known problem that will be fixed by patches (none applied yet as the simulator is not networked)? Or do I need to provide more memory? Some other info: # uname -a 2.11BSD whistler-2bsd 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998 root at pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON PDP11 By the way, if anyone else has 2.11 BSD in unpatched state and wants to set the date to 2001, email me for a copy of the updated date2.c program. Apart from this problem, 2.11BSD is working very nicely - I'm impressed that such a feature-rich Unix can even be run on a PDP-11! Cheers, Richard Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA22856 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:29:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From robin at ruffnready.co.uk Wed Jan 31 01:26:10 2001 From: robin at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:10 +0000 Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver In-Reply-To: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> References: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: In message <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey writes >In article by Robin Birch: >> Warren, >> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a >> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You >> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more >> complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be >> universal across all PDP11s. >> >> Robin > >I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) >I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. > >If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial >line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate >to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? > > Warren Well, the terminal emulator doesn't have to be very sophisticated as once the thing was running properly then you would use what ever the PC system had installed. The "two separate" would probably be easier to create but it occurs to me that many PCs only have one serial line and the only serial line that is common to all 11s is the console therefore only needing a single driver. Robin ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin at ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA23022 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:57:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From iking at microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 17:19:44 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB0D@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. (I even have some original shipping boxes.) BTW, the mail Warren cites below was sent before I had really dug into my 11/34's manuals; I have 124kW of MOS memory in the machine, and RSX-11M can use it all in a "mapped" configuration. Also, if I am going to transfer a disk image, I have another DL-11 I am going to install to make use of Warren's VTServer program. TIA -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King , who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23100 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:05:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Wed Jan 31 02:04:16 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails In-Reply-To: <3A767367.3B2FDC99@bigfoot.com> from Richard Donkin at "Jan 30, 2001 07:55:19 am" Message-ID: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > The makefile is: > > date2: date2.c > cc -o date2 -c date2.c Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program and not produce an executable. > > - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way > -- Dr. Mark Green mark at cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23775 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:22:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Wed Jan 31 04:20:58 2001 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein at ucsd.edu > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > From: Ian King > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" , > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > onto his real disk. > > Many thanks all! > > Warren > Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23853 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:31:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 31 04:30:14 2001 From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <3A770836.5E42CF2B@tampabay.rr.com> I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein at ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King > > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" , > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > > From iking at microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 03:08:59 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:08:59 -0800 Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB00@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Warren, I have the DZ-11 docs; I'll scan the relevant sections and mail it to you. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 5:25 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Hi all, I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable unless you have a PDP-11/45. I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in responding. Thanks all, Warren struct vtdevice { int rcsr,rbuf; int tcsr,tbuf; }; #define NVT 2 struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ (struct vtdevice *)0, (struct vtdevice *)-1 }; /* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ char vtgetc() { register c; VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { lotim--; if (lotim==0) hitim--; if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } } c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); } vtputc(c) register c; { register s; while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; } Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24991 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:17:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In-Reply-To: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu> from Carl Lowenstein at "Jan 30, 2001 10:20:58 am" Message-ID: <200101302213.f0UMDUQ35508@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25322 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:28:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From iking at microsoft.com Wed Jan 31 08:38:15 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) to spray it onto a disk. Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:30 AM To: Carl Lowenstein Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein at ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King > > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" , > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > > Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25337 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:29:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 31 09:27:56 2001 From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:56 -0500 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8@tampabay.rr.com> Hi Ian, Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh. Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine. In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0' the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^) Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape so there is no root password set... Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... maybe better to let it live back in 1975... I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form... Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^) Cheers, -- Ken Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. > > Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25365 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Wed Jan 31 09:30:55 2001 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <200101302330.PAA29420@chiton.ucsd.edu> > From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > From: Warren Toomey > Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > To: Carl Lowenstein > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) > CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In article by Carl Lowenstein: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > > > carl > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > That's the problem. > > Cheers, > Warren Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so. There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this one would be a real show-stopper. The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible. I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must be the place where such things happen. I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and RTI instructions to set the processor priority. carl Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25390 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:35:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From rdonkin at bigfoot.com Wed Jan 31 09:33:02 2001 From: rdonkin at bigfoot.com (Richard Donkin) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:33:02 +0000 Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails References: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3A774F2E.46106B82@bigfoot.com> Mark Green wrote: > > > > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > > The makefile is: > > > > date2: date2.c > > cc -o date2 -c date2.c > Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program > and not produce an executable. Ooops... I must have been up too late when I came up with that one. Thanks Richard Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26019 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:46:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From bill at cs.scranton.edu Wed Jan 31 11:45:20 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In-Reply-To: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8@tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) > > Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... > maybe better to let it live back in 1975... > I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to install a fixed "date" command. Yes, it is only the date command that is not Y2K ready. First: Set the date to 9912312359 Second: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2000. Third: Set the date to 12312359 Fourth: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2001. Fifth: Set the month, day, hour and minute to the current time. Voila. Primitive, but it works. I guess I could try building the GNU date command on Ultrix-11 or maybe just get the sources from FreeBSD. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27811 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:07:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From iking at microsoft.com Wed Jan 31 16:58:53 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:58:53 -0800 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1A@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Again, I'd be glad to do things like this, if I could get an image to run on an emulator -- that's been a goal. I've tried various 'processors' (in emulation), but not been successful at booting the Unix kernel. Can anyone say, "I booted image X on emulator Y and had a successfully running Unix"? If so, please please please share your experience -- I haven't been able to boot anything out of the PUPS archive on the E11 emulator (held out by some to be the best). And, if/when I have success, I promise to share a field report. :-) -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:31 PM To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > From: Warren Toomey > Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > To: Carl Lowenstein > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) > CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In article by Carl Lowenstein: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > > > carl > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > That's the problem. > > Cheers, > Warren Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so. There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this one would be a real show-stopper. The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible. I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must be the place where such things happen. I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and RTI instructions to set the processor priority. carl Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27852 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:13:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From iking at microsoft.com Wed Jan 31 17:05:55 2001 From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:55 -0800 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1C@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Ken, if you send it to my personal email account, there's no size restriction (I run the mail server); it's iking at killthewabbit.org. I would greatly appreciate your sending it to me. BTW, I've been using 1977 (the year I graduated fron high school) on my PDP-11 under RSX-11; some tools won't accept the "01" year. :-) Cheers -- isk PS: I've hired a lot of Waterloo folks -- smart buggers, the lot of them. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM To: Ian King Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Hi Ian, Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh. Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine. In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0' the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^) Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape so there is no root password set... Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... maybe better to let it live back in 1975... I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form... Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^) Cheers, -- Ken Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. > > Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29613 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:21:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 31 23:20:06 2001 From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:06 -0500 Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <3A781106.F7302A5A@tampabay.rr.com> Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently damaged: gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc. I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file). I did not try and run the MD5 list yet. But this is an example of why I had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive... B^) -- Ken Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA30614 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:08:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)