From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 14 02:54:50 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:54:50 -0400 Subject: [pups] LSI-11? And different versions of E-11 Message-ID: <003a01c34822$d15fa4a0$239efea9@who5> Hello from Gregg C Levine Here's a question. Does anyone on this list, know where I could obtain an LSI-11? Or even a Heathkit, H-11? And the other question, is: Has anyone gotten the different versions of E-11 to boot the operating systems that are available on the file server? These are versions that are stored on the file server itself. Older then 3.1 is what I am thinking of. For my first question, please reply directly to me. That is, only positive ones. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Jul 15 01:18:03 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:18:03 +0200 Subject: [pups] PDP-11 hardware & software usage poll Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DFEE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi All, For those of you who don't follow alt.sys.pdp11: I set up a simple web page to start an inventory poll on the number and types of PDP-11 systems used by hobbyists, the operating systems in use on them, and what, if any, licenses are being used for those systems. All this has to do with the whole Mentec not having a license program for the PDP-11 R* operaing systems (RT, RSX and RSTS). After some discussion with Mentec, the site was set up to do the gathering of numbers so we can convince their Management that there are many systems in hobby use, and that there's enough people willing to aquire such a license. Please check out http://www.pdp11.nl/poll.htm and do your magic. None of the information provided will be transferred to anyone- only the summarized info will be made available in a report to Mentec - a copy of which you can request by requesting the 'feedbeck' stuff in the poll. Thanks, and spread the word ! Fred From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Wed Jul 16 21:46:36 2003 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:46:36 +1200 Subject: [pups] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone? Message-ID: <200307162346.36661.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> I've just come across mention of an I80x86 product of IBM's, called CP/88 and CP/X86 http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Ferguson/Chapter.5.html Anybody know anything more about it, and is it still extant, in existence? Wesley Parish -- Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people." From cube1 at charter.net Thu Jul 17 01:00:36 2003 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:00:36 -0500 Subject: [pups] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone? In-Reply-To: <200307162346.36661.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030716095946.03e311a8@cirithi> I imagine it was the 3270 PC Control Program. It came with every 3270 PC and 3270 PC/AT. I had never heard it called by those names before. Jay Jaeger At 11:46 PM 7/16/2003 +1200, Wesley Parish wrote: >I've just come across mention of an I80x86 product of IBM's, called CP/88 and >CP/X86 >http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Ferguson/Chapter.5.html > >Anybody know anything more about it, and is it still extant, in existence? > >Wesley Parish >-- >Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" >You ask, "What is the most important thing?" >Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." >I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people." >_______________________________________________ >PUPS mailing list >PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1 at charter.net From wkt at tuhs.org Thu Jul 17 10:14:07 2003 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:14:07 +1000 Subject: [pups] Uploading things into the Unix Archive Message-ID: <20030717001407.GA25399@minnie.tuhs.org> Hi all, I see I've built up a long list of e-mails from people who have stuff to donate to the Unix Archive. There is now an FTP upload area on the machine: ftp to minnie.tuhs.org, cd to incoming. If you do upload anything called XXX, please also include a README.XXX file so I know what it is, where it came from and other useful information. If you have material that cannot be publicly released at present, but would like it archived for safety reasons, simply use random file names, and tell me the correct names in the README file. I will squirrel these things away for later. The area is set to allow uploads and to see the directory contents. No downloads are possible. Thanks all! Warren From usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com Wed Jul 2 08:16:27 2003 From: usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com (Steve Nickolas) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:16:27 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] V7/8086 I'm a bit behind the times here, but... Message-ID: I already had some ideas, and when I saw something called "v7upgrade", a weird thought came to my head... I'm wondering if any gurus out there would be able to point me in the general direction, as far as getting V7 stuff running on an 8086, perhaps a full V7 system. Something like v7upgrade but including a kernel and bootloader. I don't know. Just musing... My only experience with a "real" UNIX is either SunOS via telnet or PicoBSD. I use RH8 Linux, FreeDOS ODIN 0.31 and Win98SE at home. It would be interesting to play with V7 on one of my computers. :) BTW I do have v7upgrade running on my Linux box - sweet! :} -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com From peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au Wed Jul 2 08:19:34 2003 From: peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:19:34 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] V7/8086 I'm a bit behind the times here, but... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030701221934.GM430@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> On 2003-Jul-01 18:16:27 -0400, Steve Nickolas wrote: >I already had some ideas, and when I saw something called "v7upgrade", a weird thought came to my head... > >I'm wondering if any gurus out there would be able to point me in the >general direction, as far as getting V7 stuff running on an 8086, >perhaps a full V7 system. Something like v7upgrade but including a >kernel and bootloader. I don't know. Just musing... I've also been considering this in the background ever since "ancient" Unix became available. At least one other person has posted that they did actually do a suitable port. Downsides: - 8086 has no hardware protection. You'd need to go to the 80286 to get any inter-process protection. - 80x86 16-bit memory management is far more primitive than the PDP-11. Given the requirement for data and stack addresses to be in the same address space (assumed by virtually all C programs), the total data+ heap+stack space required for a process must be pre-allocated and there is no protection between heap and stack. The main reason I've never proceeded is the lack of a suitable C compiler: 16-bit 80x86, open source, able to run in 64K I+D mode, and generating half-way decent code. (Without the last requirement, the kernel and some of the larger userland utilities will probably be too large). Supporting overlays would add the requirement to handle mixed-mode code, support segment overrides and 'far' objects. Peter From wkt at tuhs.org Fri Jul 4 11:19:00 2003 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:19:00 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Re: Unix Archive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030704011900.GA50662@minnie.tuhs.org> On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 04:36:02PM -0400, Latisha Vernon wrote: > I would like to obtain a CD of the pups archive of UNIX. I have tried to > access the link provided by the pups website, but was told the site no > longer existed. If possible, please provide information on how I might > obtain the CD. I'll forward this to the mailing list; perhaps someone there might help you. Can you tell us where you live? Warren From usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com Tue Jul 8 15:21:36 2003 From: usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com (Steve Nickolas) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:21:36 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] v6on286 Message-ID: I was finally able to download a good copy of v6on286 from minnie... I have Borland C++ 3.1, the existing version was built with 3.0. There are no binaries in the v6on286 package for the Unix itself, AFAICT, but I did get a successful MAKE. This is the weird thing, and I'm not sure if it's pilot error, the fact I'm running Windoze, or a glitch in the code. C:\UNIX>un Screen goes blank except for a block flashing cursor. The keyboard does not respond - not even the lights - indicating that the machine is either in a PM loop or completely hung. Has anyone had better luck than me? Or have I had better luck than everyone else (author excluded)? Thx. BTW...I wonder, could some old C compiler be bootstrapped on v6on286 and then V7 ported on it? -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com From macbiesz at optonline.net Wed Jul 9 01:07:48 2003 From: macbiesz at optonline.net (Maciek Bieszczad) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:07:48 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] v6on286 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c34562$b2122130$06fea8c0@maciek> This might help: http://nibbly.york.ac.uk/mirrors/TUHS/Other/V6on286/README (I'm not sure why it was removed from TUHS) -- Maciek (macbiesz at optonline.net) -----Original Message----- From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf Of Steve Nickolas Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:22 AM To: tuhs at tuhs.org Subject: [TUHS] v6on286 I was finally able to download a good copy of v6on286 from minnie... I have Borland C++ 3.1, the existing version was built with 3.0. There are no binaries in the v6on286 package for the Unix itself, AFAICT, but I did get a successful MAKE. This is the weird thing, and I'm not sure if it's pilot error, the fact I'm running Windoze, or a glitch in the code. C:\UNIX>un Screen goes blank except for a block flashing cursor. The keyboard does not respond - not even the lights - indicating that the machine is either in a PM loop or completely hung. Has anyone had better luck than me? Or have I had better luck than everyone else (author excluded)? Thx. BTW...I wonder, could some old C compiler be bootstrapped on v6on286 and then V7 ported on it? -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From jwillis at coherent-logic.com Wed Jul 9 01:31:08 2003 From: jwillis at coherent-logic.com (John P. Willis) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:31:08 GMT Subject: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption Message-ID: <20030708153108.22255.qmail@klaatu.zianet.com> Just curious to hear the opinions of the many wise people here... What is the likelihood of an encryption system in which the resulting data has no pattern, and one character of encrypted data may stand for many different characters when decrypted? From usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com Wed Jul 9 02:08:37 2003 From: usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com (Steve Nickolas) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:08:37 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] v6on286 Message-ID: <973AA9883D41F48458B58EAD4B7162D2@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com> >From: Maciek Bieszczad >Sent: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:07:48 -0400 >To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org >Subject: RE: [TUHS] v6on286 >This might help: >http://nibbly.york.ac.uk/mirrors/TUHS/Other/V6on286/README >(I'm not sure why it was removed from TUHS) I did read it. (Hence, my knowledge to use BC3) :) I was aware of the / bug and didn't even make it that far. I was hoping (still am) that someone did build it and make it that far. -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com From list-tuhs at cosmic.com Wed Jul 9 02:29:59 2003 From: list-tuhs at cosmic.com (list-tuhs at cosmic.com) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:29:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption References: <20030708153108.22255.qmail@klaatu.zianet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:31:08 GMT, John P. Willis wrote: > >Just curious to hear the opinions of the many wise people here... >What is the likelihood of an encryption system in which the resulting data >has no pattern, Such a thing exists, it is called a one-time pad. Generate a completely random key as long as the plaintext, and then XOR each successive bit of the key with the corresponding bit of the plaintext. The result is indistinguishable from random noise; only someone with an identical copy of the key can decrypt it (using precisely the same method of course). > and one character of encrypted data may stand for many >different characters when decrypted? Assuming you mean "one character of encrypted data might represent any one of several different characters of plaintext" (not "one character's worth of encrypted data represents multiple characters worth of plaintext), this is indeed the effect of a one-time pad. Just don't ever reuse that key; promptly destroy both copies after use. --Mirian From president at coherent-logic.com Wed Jul 9 03:35:24 2003 From: president at coherent-logic.com (Joel Martinez) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:35:24 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption References: <20030708153108.22255.qmail@klaatu.zianet.com> Message-ID: <00be01c34577$503521f0$d2c0ead8@zianet.com> Is it possible to do this with a fixed length key? > Such a thing exists, it is called a one-time pad. Generate a > completely random key as long as the plaintext, and then XOR each > successive bit of the key with the corresponding bit of the plaintext. > The result is indistinguishable from random noise; only someone with > an identical copy of the key can decrypt it (using precisely the same > method of course). > > --Mirian > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Wed Jul 9 04:04:42 2003 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption Message-ID: <200307081804.h68I4gZ13805@opihi.ucsd.edu> > X-From: mirian at trantor.cosmic.com (Mirian Crzig Lennox) > Subject: Re: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:29:59 +0000 (UTC) > > On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:31:08 GMT, John P. Willis wrote: > > > >Just curious to hear the opinions of the many wise people here... > >What is the likelihood of an encryption system in which the resulting data > >has no pattern, > > Such a thing exists, it is called a one-time pad. Generate a > completely random key as long as the plaintext, and then XOR each > successive bit of the key with the corresponding bit of the plaintext. > The result is indistinguishable from random noise; only someone with > an identical copy of the key can decrypt it (using precisely the same > method of course). > > > and one character of encrypted data may stand for many > >different characters when decrypted? > > Assuming you mean "one character of encrypted data might represent any > one of several different characters of plaintext" (not "one > character's worth of encrypted data represents multiple characters > worth of plaintext), this is indeed the effect of a one-time pad. > Just don't ever reuse that key; promptly destroy both copies after > use. > > --Mirian This is hardly the place for a long discussion on such topics, but one might want to look at the FAQ for the net news group sci.crypt. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst at ucsd.edu From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Wed Jul 9 04:22:13 2003 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption Message-ID: <200307081822.h68IMDS13834@opihi.ucsd.edu> > From: "Joel Martinez" > To: > Subject: Re: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:35:24 -0600 > > Is it possible to do this with a fixed length key? > > > Such a thing exists, it is called a one-time pad. Generate a > > completely random key as long as the plaintext, and then XOR each > > successive bit of the key with the corresponding bit of the plaintext. > > The result is indistinguishable from random noise; only someone with > > an identical copy of the key can decrypt it (using precisely the same > > method of course). For various degrees of security, depending on the length of the key. Keys are not used directly for encryption, but are used to generate cryptographically secure pseudo-random sequences. As a starting point, look at < http://www.mindspring.com/~schlafly/crypto/faq.htm > carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst at ucsd.edu From macbiesz at optonline.net Wed Jul 9 12:34:51 2003 From: macbiesz at optonline.net (Maciek Bieszczad) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:34:51 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] v6on286 In-Reply-To: <20030709002523.GA7146@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <000001c345c2$ad14f670$06fea8c0@maciek> Ah, silly of me. If I used FTP, that could have saved a couple wasted hours compiling v6on286 :) -- Maciek (macbiesz at optonline.net) -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at tuhs.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:25 PM To: Maciek Bieszczad Subject: Re: [TUHS] v6on286 ?! It's still here at ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/Other/V6on286/ but I'm not sure why Apache hides the README when the same directory is viewed with http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Other/V6on286/, I'd better check that out. Warren From szigi at ik.bme.hu Wed Jul 9 17:00:25 2003 From: szigi at ik.bme.hu (SZIGETI Szabolcs) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:00:25 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] v6on286 References: Message-ID: <003201c345e7$c5e2c180$26f34298@ik.bme.hu> > Screen goes blank except for a block flashing cursor. The keyboard > does not respond - not even the lights - indicating that the machine > is either in a PM loop or completely hung. > > Has anyone had better luck than me? > > Or have I had better luck than everyone else (author excluded)? Hi, Sorry, I don't have the soruces with me right now, so I can't be exact, but I'll check next week. You need to have a root disk (floppy or hdd), with /etc/init and stuff. To do this, first compile unix with the "built in shell". Check te Makefile for the #define! Also set the root device in the kernel (floppy or hdd). Make a floppy or hdd (be careful with the sector numbers, mkfs works with absolute sectors, so it's easy to overwrite another partition) with the dos based mkfs. Start the kernel with built in shell. It should create /dev/tty automatically, and then you can populate the rest of the /dev directory. There is a tool (sorry, I don't remenber the names, but check the source) to transfer files, via an ather floppy, which is a horrible kludge, first you write one file on it using one of the utilities, then start the kernel, and using one of the built in commands you write it into the filesystem. This has to be done one-by-one. You can exit the kernel via shift-escape (?), but do a sync before. Once you have the root floppy, recompile the kernel without the shell. Now about the bug: I think I broke something in the inode code (I once wanted to rewrite the code in ansi c, and then lost the original), so currently, it won't mount the root fs. With plenty of printf's in the kernel it's possible to debug :-). Regards, Szabolcs From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es Wed Jul 9 19:06:34 2003 From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (José R. Valverde) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:06:34 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Comparing Linux code Message-ID: <20030709110634.68ceaad8.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es> Pardon me for posting not being a subscriber, I already subscribe to too many lists and I prefer to readd the archives at Minnie. I've used the procedures described in http://www.rickbradley.com/chron/20030619/ to compare the code in Linux with the code of Solaris. There are a few striking comments shared by .c files, some actually containing "jokes". However. Note that I'll NOT comment on anything I've seen in the Solaris code. I'll only talk of my own experience and what LINUX/BSD code says. Matches for [argh urg not set but urp changed a sensible implementation should n ever do this but rfc793 doesnt prohibit the change so we have to deal with it]: ***SOLARIS SOURCE ID REMOVED*** ./drivers/net/slhc.c Looks like the possible 'joke' shared code. Code inspection confirms. Linux code states that slhc code is (c) by BSD. 4.4BSD-Lite contains the code in ./sys/net/slcompress.c The same code appears first in 4.3BSD in the same file. This is NOT therefore SUN/ATT/SCO code, so I guess I can safely comment on it. This looks like one of those infamous source files from BSD whose copyright comments where stripped before the BSD/ATT lawsuit. SCO might preserve the original, pre-lawsuit ATT code (without the (c) notice) and _believe_ it to be theirs. Actually it makes sense in the UNIX sellout turmoil after the lawsuit that the BSD copyrights were forgotten to be merged back in the code. Should it be so, then perhaps SCO zealots did the so much aired comparison UNIX/Linux but did not care to check their own source code against BSD, thus slipping on this one? There is another source file which _might_ be contaminated, but I can't tell in which direction this might have happened. I won't venture breaking confidentiality agreements, but this I believe I can say: I know from experinece this file has suffered extense enhancements during the '90s, most of which were done by independent developers for Suns. The LINUX comments identify the author as an independent developer of world fame in the area indicating the routines were originally developed for SUN and DEC, so if SCO has any claims it might only be by "license contamination" (i.e. any independent addition must belong to me no matter how indirect because I say so). Actually it might be that Sun and DEC added the changes contributed to them and provided them back to the UNIX reference source. In that case, SCO will have a hard time to claim the code belongs to them and they are not stealing other people's contributed code. Furthermore, if they still claim it's theirs 'cos of license contamination, they will put a hard stress on UNIX vendors: in the '90s some vendors survived mainly because of specialized market niches (e.g. MBONE on Sun, graphics on SGI, etc..): everybody in some field would use the same system, users would contribute fixes to them, and this gave them an advantage. Now, if people see that contributing to any system will make them lose rights over their own code, in the future they won't tie themselves to any specific vendor, and vendors will lose the opportunity of taking advantage of specialized user groups to increase their competitivity. Now, imagine where would Sun be if they had never been able to differentiate themselves as, say, the 'dot com' company during the Internet boom. Were I SCO I'd think twice before hampering licensees ability to capitalize on market niche differentiations because of claims on independent, free code developed by _their_ users. All this, assuming, of course, these are the files in dispute. So far, and assuming these are the files, it mostly looks like external additions to SCO code that lost the original copyright references. It is understandable that SCO modern engineers ignore what happened before the ATT/BSD trial, or even ignore the original author of code reverted back by UNIX licensees, and that ignoring who wrote what, they may believe it is all theirs. But, if these were the files, they'll have a hard time. First for not checking correctly their claims (agains say, BSD code), second for not acknowledging nor keeping track of original authors of contributed code, and finally for claiming ownership of code that does not belong to them. Other files share some odd small comment, often it looks like pure chance, machine/vendor dependent code (probably not ATT/SCO therefore) or common sense, so I didn't investigate those any further. j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural From usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com Thu Jul 10 02:25:12 2003 From: usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com (Steve Nickolas) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:25:12 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] v6on286 Message-ID: >From: Kenneth Stailey >Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:37:09 -0700 (PDT) >To: Steve Nickolas >Subject: Re: RE: [TUHS] v6on286 >The README says: ><< The kernel makes heavy use of the special 286 protected mode >features >> >Try bochs set to be a 286. I figure that a Celeron is a superset of the 386 - ergo, of the 286 also - so there shouldn't be a problem. Maybe I'll do that though, it's safer in a sandbox. >I am wondering if Cygwin could be used to build the code. I see that >ancient C stuff like "=+" was eliminated already. !! I think if you converted the ASM to some other format, you could use Turbo C++ to build it, though...haven't tried that, I don't grok ASM. >Plus check this site out: > >http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/cpp.shtml LOL, I have 6 working C compilers on the Windows/DOS side of my box already :) (Turbo C++ 1, Borland C++ 3, Watcom C 11, djgpp, MinGW32, Cygwin) -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Thu Jul 10 18:45:35 2003 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:45:35 +1200 Subject: [TUHS] Comparing Linux code In-Reply-To: <20030709110634.68ceaad8.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es> References: <20030709110634.68ceaad8.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es> Message-ID: <200307102045.35194.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:06, Jos�R. Valverde wrote: > Pardon me for posting not being a subscriber, I already subscribe to too > many lists and I prefer to readd the archives at Minnie. > > I've used the procedures described in > > http://www.rickbradley.com/chron/20030619/ > > to compare the code in Linux with the code of Solaris. There are a few > striking comments shared by .c files, some actually containing "jokes". > However. > > Note that I'll NOT comment on anything I've seen in the Solaris > code. I'll only talk of my own experience and what LINUX/BSD code says. > > Matches for [argh urg not set but urp changed a sensible implementation > should n ever do this but rfc793 doesnt prohibit the change so we have to > deal with it]: ***SOLARIS SOURCE ID REMOVED*** > ./drivers/net/slhc.c > > Looks like the possible 'joke' shared code. Code inspection confirms. > Linux code states that slhc code is (c) by BSD. > 4.4BSD-Lite contains the code in ./sys/net/slcompress.c > The same code appears first in 4.3BSD in the same file. > This is NOT therefore SUN/ATT/SCO code, so I guess I can safely comment > on it. > This looks like one of those infamous source files from BSD whose > copyright comments where stripped before the BSD/ATT lawsuit. SCO might > preserve the original, pre-lawsuit ATT code (without the (c) notice) and > _believe_ it to be theirs. Actually it makes sense in the UNIX sellout > turmoil after the lawsuit that the BSD copyrights were forgotten to be > merged back in the code. > > Should it be so, then perhaps SCO zealots did the so much aired > comparison UNIX/Linux but did not care to check their own source code > against BSD, thus slipping on this one? The term for that, in relation to something that clearly is a matter of peoples' reputations, business survivability, etc, is "due diligence". > > There is another source file which _might_ be contaminated, but I > can't tell in which direction this might have happened. I won't venture > breaking confidentiality agreements, but this I believe I can say: I know > from experinece this file has suffered extense enhancements during the > '90s, most of which were done by independent developers for Suns. The LINUX > comments identify the author as an independent developer of world fame in > the area indicating the routines were originally developed for SUN and DEC, > so if SCO has any claims it might only be by "license contamination" (i.e. > any independent addition must belong to me no matter how indirect because I > say so). That is truly "viral licensing". GPL at least has the grace and honesty to be up-front about it, and only if the binaries get published. Real "viral licensing' acts much the way virii do - beneath the skin, out of sight. Actually it might be that Sun and DEC added the changes > contributed to them and provided them back to the UNIX reference source. In > that case, SCO will have a hard time to claim the code belongs to them and > they are not stealing other people's contributed code. That is pretty much what I allege SCO is in fact doing. By extending the meaning of "derived" to include practically anything, from just sniffing/looking at an AT&T letterhead to copying the whole kit and caboodle, they have rendered their contentions null and void, AFAIC. > > Furthermore, if they still claim it's theirs 'cos of license > contamination, they will put a hard stress on UNIX vendors: in the '90s > some vendors survived mainly because of specialized market niches (e.g. > MBONE on Sun, graphics on SGI, etc..): everybody in some field would use > the same system, users would contribute fixes to them, and this gave them > an advantage. Now, if people see that contributing to any system will make > them lose rights over their own code, in the future they won't tie > themselves to any specific vendor, and vendors will lose the opportunity of > taking advantage of specialized user groups to increase their > competitivity. Which is the problem with MS's "Shared Source" - developers are staying away from it in droves, because nobody can do anything even remotely useful with the source code. Now, imagine where would Sun be if they had never been able > to differentiate themselves as, say, the 'dot com' company during the > Internet boom. > > Were I SCO I'd think twice before hampering licensees ability to > capitalize on market niche differentiations because of claims on > independent, free code developed by _their_ users. > > All this, assuming, of course, these are the files in dispute. > > So far, and assuming these are the files, it mostly looks like external > additions to SCO code that lost the original copyright references. It is > understandable that SCO modern engineers ignore what happened before the > ATT/BSD trial, or even ignore the original author of code reverted back by > UNIX licensees, and that ignoring who wrote what, they may believe it is > all theirs. "Due diligence" of course. You can take out an airline on that basis (Air New Zealand springs to mind), much less a little company like SCO's. And "due diligence" is the more positive approach to it - a vengeful approach talks of "wilful deception", "fraudulent claims", "defamation of character", and suchlike. "Lack of due diligence" is mild. > > But, if these were the files, they'll have a hard time. First for not > checking correctly their claims (agains say, BSD code), second for not > acknowledging nor keeping track of original authors of contributed code, > and finally for claiming ownership of code that does not belong to them. > > Other files share some odd small comment, often it looks like pure > chance, machine/vendor dependent code (probably not ATT/SCO therefore) or > common sense, so I didn't investigate those any further. > > j Wesley Parish -- Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people." From kstailey at yahoo.com Fri Jul 11 12:28:33 2003 From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Ransom Love's Speech that claims SCO will "Add Components" to Linux Kernel To Make It Scale Message-ID: <20030711022833.86624.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com> http://radio.weblogs.com/0120124/2003/07/08.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Wed Jul 16 21:46:36 2003 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:46:36 +1200 Subject: [TUHS] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone? Message-ID: <200307162346.36661.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> I've just come across mention of an I80x86 product of IBM's, called CP/88 and CP/X86 http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Ferguson/Chapter.5.html Anybody know anything more about it, and is it still extant, in existence? Wesley Parish -- Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people." From cube1 at charter.net Thu Jul 17 01:00:36 2003 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:00:36 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Re: [pups] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone? In-Reply-To: <200307162346.36661.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030716095946.03e311a8@cirithi> I imagine it was the 3270 PC Control Program. It came with every 3270 PC and 3270 PC/AT. I had never heard it called by those names before. Jay Jaeger At 11:46 PM 7/16/2003 +1200, Wesley Parish wrote: >I've just come across mention of an I80x86 product of IBM's, called CP/88 and >CP/X86 >http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Ferguson/Chapter.5.html > >Anybody know anything more about it, and is it still extant, in existence? > >Wesley Parish >-- >Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" >You ask, "What is the most important thing?" >Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." >I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people." >_______________________________________________ >PUPS mailing list >PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1 at charter.net From wkt at tuhs.org Thu Jul 17 10:14:07 2003 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:14:07 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Uploading things into the Unix Archive Message-ID: <20030717001407.GA25399@minnie.tuhs.org> Hi all, I see I've built up a long list of e-mails from people who have stuff to donate to the Unix Archive. There is now an FTP upload area on the machine: ftp to minnie.tuhs.org, cd to incoming. If you do upload anything called XXX, please also include a README.XXX file so I know what it is, where it came from and other useful information. If you have material that cannot be publicly released at present, but would like it archived for safety reasons, simply use random file names, and tell me the correct names in the README file. I will squirrel these things away for later. The area is set to allow uploads and to see the directory contents. No downloads are possible. Thanks all! Warren From usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com Thu Jul 17 12:45:53 2003 From: usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com (Steve Nickolas) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:45:53 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Re: [pups] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone? Message-ID: <97AFA44E795B91C42944A69504F378ED@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com> I used to have an old Lotus 123 1A manual, it was for the 3270PC. It mentioned how there was some windowed system and a way to escape to DOS 2.0 and how 123 had to be run in full-screen mode because it raw-blitted to the video RAM. Sounded like the system was rather Windows 2-like, or at the very least Windows 1-like, back before the Mac. *blink* I don't know, never seen a 3270PC in real life. I do think that this CP/88 might be that windowed system. ...I wonder if it could run on Bochs or some other x86 PC emulator *g* -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com From kstailey at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 00:40:24 2003 From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Interview with Brian Kernighan Message-ID: <20030729144024.91368.qmail@web10009.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7035&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 some quotes: << LJ: Is it true that you suggested the name "UNIX" for the long ago OS, Multics? What does that word mean? BK: Yes, long ago. Multics was an acronym for something like Multiplexed Information and Computing Service, and it was big and complicated because it had many of everything. I suggested Unics for Ken's new system, because it was small and had at most one of anything. (Multi and uni are both Latin roots, so it was a very weak pun.) Someone else spelled it with the letter X; no one can remember who. >> << LJ: What UNIX OSes do you like? Linux? BSD? BK: The way I use them, which is as a casual programmer, it doesn't matter--they are all the same. If I encounter some difference, it only makes me mad, because there really isn't any reason for things to be different most of the time. I use Solaris at Princeton, Irix when I visit Bell Labs, and FreeBSD on my Mac; I also have Cygwin on several PCs so that standard tools are readily available. >> But Brian, FreeBSD does not run on a Mac unless you don't need features like booting up all the way. http://www.freebsd.org/platforms/ppc.html << 3 July, 2002 : This page has been significantly updated. FreeBSD/PowerPC currently boots almost to the point of reaching single-user mode. >> Oh well. From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca Wed Jul 30 00:53:10 2003 From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:53:10 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Interview with Brian Kernighan Message-ID: <20030729145344.4EFA91E85@minnie.tuhs.org> Kenneth Stailey: But Brian, FreeBSD does not run on a Mac unless you don't need features like booting up all the way. ======= I think that just underscores the point: it doesn't matter which church the system goes to as long as it works. If everyone was as areligious in their computing the world would be a much better place. Norman Wilson Toronto ON From kstailey at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 04:43:20 2003 From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TUHS] Interview with Brian Kernighan In-Reply-To: <20030729.085716.34583192.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: <20030729184320.58227.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com> --- "M. Warner Losh" wrote: > In message: <20030729144024.91368.qmail at web10009.mail.yahoo.com> > Kenneth Stailey writes: > : FreeBSD on my Mac; > ... > : But Brian, FreeBSD does not run on a Mac unless you don't need features > like > : booting up all the way. > > There was a FreeBSD/68k port in the 1.1 time frame. It was never > integrated into the main FreeBSD sources due to The Lawsuit and > FreeBSD starting over with 4.4-lite. > > Warner Actually, I just figured out that when BK said "FreeBSD on Mac" he meant "Mac OS X". (Doh!) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From imp at bsdimp.com Wed Jul 30 00:57:16 2003 From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:57:16 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [TUHS] Interview with Brian Kernighan In-Reply-To: <20030729144024.91368.qmail@web10009.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030729144024.91368.qmail@web10009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030729.085716.34583192.imp@bsdimp.com> In message: <20030729144024.91368.qmail at web10009.mail.yahoo.com> Kenneth Stailey writes: : FreeBSD on my Mac; ... : But Brian, FreeBSD does not run on a Mac unless you don't need features like : booting up all the way. There was a FreeBSD/68k port in the 1.1 time frame. It was never integrated into the main FreeBSD sources due to The Lawsuit and FreeBSD starting over with 4.4-lite. Warner