From james at peacemax.org Wed Aug 10 01:09:26 2005 From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 09:09:26 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] PDP-11/23 plus minicomputer Message-ID: <42F8C726.7070405@peacemax.org> To all interested, This is not meant as a advertising. The following is meant for informational purposes only. An entire PDP-11/23 system plus minicomputer is currently up for auction on E-Bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Equipment-Corp-PDP-11-23-plus-minicomputer_W0QQitemZ5226862708QQcategoryZ4193QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem There is a person that has requested that the disk drive and disks be dumped if that person should win. There are 2 disks marked "system" on them. As a part of The Unix Heritage Society, I believe we need to keep this system intact. I personally do not have the money to successfully bid and win. I hope somebody from The Unix Heritage Society will take up the cause and make a successful winning bid. The system in it's entirety is a part of The Unix Heritage. From james at peacemax.org Wed Aug 10 07:31:13 2005 From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:31:13 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] PDP-11/23 plus minicomputer In-Reply-To: <42F91CF0.nailCFZ1C4VM1@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <42F8C726.7070405@peacemax.org> <42F91CF0.nailCFZ1C4VM1@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <42F920A1.9090302@peacemax.org> Tim, I thought Unix was written and used on PDP-11 systems. Which PDP-11 systems ought I keep an eye out for? Thank you, James Falknor Tim Shoppa wrote: >>There are 2 disks marked "system" on them. [...] As part of the Unix >>Heritage Society, I believe we need to keep this system intact. >> >> > >Why do you think the disks are Unix-related? > >I'm not saying that it's impossible to run Unix on a 11/23 (in fact I >was the one who recovered RL02 packs with V6 hacked to run on a 11/23) >but it's 99.99% certain that this system ran either RT-11 or RSX-11, >given the context. > >Now, if the buyer is dumb enough to buy the system and not use the >disk drives, it's his responsibility to figure out how the heck he's >ever going to boot the OS. > >Tim. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shoppa at trailing-edge.com Wed Aug 10 07:15:28 2005 From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:15:28 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] PDP-11/23 plus minicomputer In-Reply-To: <42F8C726.7070405@peacemax.org> References: <42F8C726.7070405@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <42F91CF0.nailCFZ1C4VM1@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> > There are 2 disks marked "system" on them. [...] As part of the Unix > Heritage Society, I believe we need to keep this system intact. Why do you think the disks are Unix-related? I'm not saying that it's impossible to run Unix on a 11/23 (in fact I was the one who recovered RL02 packs with V6 hacked to run on a 11/23) but it's 99.99% certain that this system ran either RT-11 or RSX-11, given the context. Now, if the buyer is dumb enough to buy the system and not use the disk drives, it's his responsibility to figure out how the heck he's ever going to boot the OS. Tim. From shoppa at trailing-edge.com Wed Aug 10 07:54:35 2005 From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:54:35 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] PDP-11/23 plus minicomputer In-Reply-To: <42F920A1.9090302@peacemax.org> References: <42F8C726.7070405@peacemax.org> <42F91CF0.nailCFZ1C4VM1@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <42F920A1.9090302@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <42F9261B.nailE1J1HAW4K@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> > I thought Unix was written and used on PDP-11 systems. It was. So was DOS-11, RT-11, RSTS/E, RSX-11-*, IAS, etc. > Which PDP-11 systems ought I keep an eye out for? Anything but the very lowest end (11/04, 11/03, etc.) if you want to run Unix. While Unixes show up on -11's in many applications, they were least popular in industrial-control type situations, which is where most -11's are used. Of course, just to complicate things, they were using Unix variants on 11-based industrial control systems too! And you are right, it is indeed possible that this particular 11/23 has some Unix packs in the deal, I'm just pointing out that it's unlikely. And you were especially correct that a buyer would be unwise to ditch the drives and packs. An -11 is more than just the CPU box, if you want to do anything even vaguely useful/interesting! Tim. From brantley at coraid.com Sat Aug 20 09:07:27 2005 From: brantley at coraid.com (Brantley Coile) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:07:27 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Any Thuth or Zed stuff out there Message-ID: <21dfd08145551d1661ee4d2c56bc3b06@coraid.com> Are there any people who worked with Thuth or the language Zed out there? Any hope of getting the source for the Zed compiler or a compiler for the Eh language? Brantley From james at peacemax.org Mon Aug 29 03:23:25 2005 From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:23:25 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell Laboratories. Message-ID: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org> To all concerned, I discovered this little gem up for auction on E-Bay. One of the stickers state that it is Seventh Edition from Bell Labs I have placed a small bid on it ($5.00 US). Advice required: 1. Would it be worth continuing to bid on? 2. What should my highest bid be? 3. Would TUHS be interested in the tape if I should win it? I don't have a tape machine or computer for such tape. Thank you, James Falknor From wkt at tuhs.org Mon Aug 29 07:40:40 2005 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:40:40 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell Laboratories. In-Reply-To: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org> References: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <20050828214040.GA8781@minnie.tuhs.org> On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 11:23:25AM -0600, James Falknor wrote: > 1. Would it be worth continuing to bid on? It's definitely a collectors item. > 2. What should my highest bid be? No idea :) > 3. Would TUHS be interested in the tape if I should win it? I don't have > a tape machine or computer for such tape. We've already extracted the contents from similar tapes, so probably no. Hope this helps, Warren From grog at lemis.com Mon Aug 29 12:09:43 2005 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:39:43 +0930 Subject: [TUHS] Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell Laboratories. In-Reply-To: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org> References: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <20050829020943.GK5861@wantadilla.lemis.com> On Sunday, 28 August 2005 at 11:23:25 -0600, James Falknor wrote: > To all concerned, > I discovered this little gem up for auction on E-Bay. > One of the stickers state that it is Seventh Edition from Bell Labs > I have placed a small bid on it ($5.00 US). That's your maximum, right? I see $2.25. > Advice required: > 1. Would it be worth continuing to bid on? Possibly. It's a pity it's not confirmed to be readable. In any case, the rule for eBay bidding is to wait until the very last minute (literally a minute or two before the auction closes) and to know what your maximum bid is. Specify it and you'll only pay enough to outbid anybody else (if possible). > 2. What should my highest bid be? I'd be inclined to go to about $20 or so, but that's my feeling. > 3. Would TUHS be interested in the tape if I should win it? I don't > have a tape machine or computer for such tape. I'm surprised that Warren said no here. It's possible that some of the code might be different; it would certainly be worth comparing. Greg -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wkt at tuhs.org Mon Aug 29 12:46:58 2005 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:46:58 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell Laboratories. In-Reply-To: <20050829020943.GK5861@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org> <20050829020943.GK5861@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20050829024658.GA61615@minnie.tuhs.org> On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 11:39:43AM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > 3. Would TUHS be interested in the tape if I should win it? I don't > > have a tape machine or computer for such tape. > > I'm surprised that Warren said no here. It's possible that some of > the code might be different; it would certainly be worth comparing. You are right, I shouldn't be so dismissve. I didn't want James to bid big $$$ for a tape if it was just to send to the TUHS :) Greg's suggestion of possibly different versions is worth considering. Let us know if you happen to win the auction! Warren From asbesto at freaknet.org Mon Aug 29 17:05:26 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:05:26 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Debugging a PDP11/34 Message-ID: <20050829070526.GA7077@freaknet.org> Hi, can someone give any hint about debugging a PDP11/34 ? If you remember, we had strange hardware problems and the pdp11/34 can't boot anymore. In these days we will do some testing, so ... we need help! :) tnx all p.s. for info about the problem here: http://groups.google.co.jp/group/alt.sys.pdp11/browse_thread/thread/7b11ffe8a819c2c1/17c8bf5631cedf9f?lnk=st&q=pdp11+broken+chip&rnum=1&hl=ja#17c8bf5631cedf9f -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shoppa at trailing-edge.com Mon Aug 29 19:49:04 2005 From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:49:04 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell Laboratories. In-Reply-To: <20050829024658.GA61615@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org> <20050829020943.GK5861@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20050829024658.GA61615@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <4312DA10.nailFFU11KIN3@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> > It's possible that some of the code might be different; it would > certainly be worth comparing. Bell Labs was pretty good about labeling tapes shipping out the door to customers, and I'm guessing this tape falls under this category. In this case, the printed label would uniquely identify the contents of the tape. If this was internal from Bell Labs or a modified 7th edition tape made by a licensee (it happens, especially for odd device support) then it might not be what's already been imaged. Tim. From asbesto at freaknet.org Wed Aug 31 00:59:35 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:59:35 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] can someone help about the pdp11/34 boot ? :( Message-ID: <20050830145935.GA3659@freaknet.org> Hi, is anyone here that can help us booting the pdp11/34 ? :( we're becoming mad :((( the boot loader hangs at 001012. can someone help understand why? we haven't any bus error, and we have no prompt at serial terminal pressing "ctrl-boot" this is the boot code, found in "E-10 Loading Software Bootstrap": location contents 001000 012701 001002 174400 001004 012761 001006 000013 001010 000004 001012 012711 001014 000004 001016 105711 001020 100376 001022 005061 001024 000002 001026 005061 001030 000004 001032 012761 001034 177400 001036 000006 001040 012711 001042 000014 001044 105711 001046 100376 001050 005007 starting it, the display show "1012", i think this mean that he stop at address 001012. why? please someone help, we're here trying to boot it. also, some test code and how-to test is appreciated :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asbesto at freaknet.org Wed Aug 31 03:51:21 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:51:21 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Weird result about a test on the pdp11/34 ... Message-ID: <20050830175120.GA14759@freaknet.org> Sorry for this, we are here for a 48 hour continued debugging session at Freaknet Medialab, trying to restore this pdp11/34 ... now we discovered this: running a program full of NOP, followed by HALT, it stop after 12 cycles !!! so, if the program start at 1000, and end at 1100 with the HLT istruction ... the CPU STOP showing 1012 !!! and, if we input the program starting from 1400, all NOP, with the HLT at 1500, it stop at 1412! and, sometimes, it stop on address 002002 !!! it seem not executing the HLT ... what can it be ? :( the 128K mos memory M7891 i tried to repair some time ago ? p.s. the program itself is as we wrote in :! if someone can answer in real time, it would be great - we are also on IRC, #pdp11 on ircnet, and ICQ 36294456. :D -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asbesto at freaknet.org Wed Aug 31 04:57:54 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 18:57:54 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] the pdp11/34 BOOTED!!! :))) Message-ID: <20050830185753.GA19283@freaknet.org> it's incredible, after 3 years, it BOOTED !!! the images, taken some minutes ago, are here: http://zaverio.net/pdp11 it's INCREDIBLE we removed the cpu boards, we looked all the chips in it ... eating pizza and sicilian food (you can see it in the photos), and we re-inserted them ... and, just for a desperate test, we tried CTRL-BOOT ... and, THE CPU was RUNNING! so we tested all the console cables ... that seem not working ... we found another cable, with a null-modem converter, so we connected an old IBM terminal ... and, it was incredible, we had the CONSOLE CURSOR!!! :))) NOW, the next step is to FIND what was faulty ... a false contact in the board connectors ??? any other hint? :) p.s. tonight we want to install UNIX. :D -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asbesto at freaknet.org Wed Aug 31 06:44:24 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:44:24 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] A patch for compiling vtserver under linux ... Message-ID: <20050830204424.GA9088@freaknet.org> Compiling vtserver gave me an error: asbesto at gemini ~/pdp11/vtserver $ cc vtserver.c -o vtserver /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0x76e): In function o_command': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xad6): In function ead_config': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xb63): In function ead_config': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xd10): In function etraw': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xdc1): In function etraw': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xe7e): more undefined references to rrno' follow collect2: ld returned 1 exit status asbesto at gemini ~/pdp11/vtserver $ This due to the way errno is now used; errno.h has to be included. Here's a patch to compile vtserver 2.3a-20010404 under linux: -------begin-patch-snip-here------ --- vtserver.c 2001-04-04 02:57:38.000000000 +0000 +++ vtserver-linux.c 2005-08-30 20:40:32.000000000 +0000 @@ -74,7 +74,23 @@ #include #include #include -char *strerror(int errno); + +#ifdef linux +/* asbesto 30-8-2005 - asbesto at freaknet.org + linux need errno.h included. :) +*/ +#include + +/* asbesto 30-8-2005 - asbesto at freaknet.org + as errno.h was included, the following line need + to be commented: + char *strerror(int errno); +*/ +#else + + char *strerror(int errno); + +#endif /* Commands sent in both directions */ struct vtcmd { ---------------------end-patch-snap-here--------- maybe this can be included in ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver and maybe the version of vtserver has to be changed :) p.s. i'm not so good in C, i quit programming many years ago, i hope this can work ok :))))) hope all this can help. -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chronaut at juno.com Wed Aug 31 07:49:30 2005 From: chronaut at juno.com (chronaut at juno.com) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:49:30 GMT Subject: [TUHS] the pdp11/34 BOOTED!!! :))) Message-ID: <20050830.144939.860.217988@webmail12.nyc.untd.com> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From carl.lowenstein at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 02:18:57 2005 From: carl.lowenstein at gmail.com (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:18:57 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] can someone help about the pdp11/34 boot ? :( In-Reply-To: <20050830145935.GA3659@freaknet.org> References: <20050830145935.GA3659@freaknet.org> Message-ID: <5904d573050830091843d54d30@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/05, asbesto wrote: > > > Hi, > > is anyone here that can help us booting the pdp11/34 ? : > > the boot loader hangs at 001012. can someone help understand > why? > > we haven't any bus error, and we have no prompt at serial > terminal pressing "ctrl-boot" > > this is the boot code, found in "E-10 Loading Software Bootstrap": > > location contents pseudo-source code > 001000 012701 mov #174400, r1 > 001002 174400 > 001004 012761 mov #13, 4(r1) > 001006 000013 > 001010 000004 > 001012 012711 mov #4, @r1 > 001014 000004 > 001016 105711 tstb @r1 > 001020 100376 bpl .-2 > 001022 005061 clr 2(r1) > 001024 000002 > 001026 005061 clr 4(r1) > 001030 000004 > 001032 012761 mov #-400, 6(r1) > 001034 177400 > 001036 000006 > 001040 012711 mov #14, @r1 > 001042 000014 > 001044 105711 tstb @r1 > 001046 100376 bpl .-2 > 001050 005007 clr pc > > starting it, the display show "1012", i think this mean that > he stop at address 001012. why? The display shows the next address to be executed. When the processor halts, what are the actual contents of locations 1000-1010? Are they what you keyed in, or has this memory been over-written? This looks like code for a RL01/RL02. Is the bus address of its control registers the normal 174400 - 177406? If you replace the last instruction CLR PC (5007) with HLT (0000) does the processor get there? This should happen regardless of what is read from the disk, because the code from the disk is not executed. You can find a lot of small key-in test programs at < http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/ODT/SourceCode/ > carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst at ucsd.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wkt at tuhs.org Wed Aug 31 17:47:30 2005 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:47:30 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] A patch for compiling vtserver under linux ... In-Reply-To: <20050830204424.GA9088@freaknet.org> References: <20050830204424.GA9088@freaknet.org> Message-ID: <20050831074730.GA21204@minnie.tuhs.org> On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 08:44:24PM +0000, asbesto wrote: > Here's a patch to compile vtserver 2.3a-20010404 under linux: [ patch omitted] Thanks Asbesto and also congratulations on getting your system to boot. Fred van Kempen has taken over maintenance of vtserver, but I don't have a working e-mail address for him. Does anybody know how to contact him? Thanks, Warren From asbesto at freaknet.org Wed Aug 31 21:54:34 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 11:54:34 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Help about Data General ECLIPSE MV/7800XP Message-ID: <20050831115434.GA10407@freaknet.org> Hi, here we are back from pdp-11/34 restoration. We haven't installed unix, because we have to prepare a special disk image for V6 to be installed on the RL02 disk (only 10 megabytes :)... now we're working on the Data General we have at our lab in Palazzolo Acreide, a little town in Sicilia (http://poetry.freaknet.org) We had an hardware problem some time ago - the tape had some electrolytic condensers to be changed, the fuse blow out, ecc. ecc., but now we think the main electric part is OK, because the tape start, and try to load the tape ... but using CLI to boot the tape, we have this error: SCP-CLI> boot Boot from what device? [24]: 22 Fatal System Error: Data Channel Bus Timeout AC0 AC1 AC2 AC3 PC CARRY ATU 00000000044 00000200000 00000170360 37700000000 00000000000 0 OFF SCP-CLI> can someone help? We have original DG/UX tapes here, and we want to install them on our disk, that now contain a weird AOS/VS installation (and we have some backup of it in other tapes) sorry for spamming the mailing list - but this list is our only resort :) (and i apologize for my bad, "italian way" english language :))) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: