From james at peacemax.org Sun Jul 10 01:41:36 2005 From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 09:41:36 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition Message-ID: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> To all you programmers, I'm sure you're scoffing at me, but I just obtained Borland's C++ BuilderX, Person Edition. It only cost $10.00 U.S. dollars direct from Borland. I plan to teach myself how to view, modify, replace, and write/re-write Unix Operating System code. May I rely on help from TUHS expert programmers? I know I'm going to need the help. My ultimate goal is to bring Unix Version7 into the 21st century. Since 4.3BSD contributed code into Unix Version8, I feel I will probably use portions of the latest BSD sources that are legally available. Again, if I may use those of you that programmers help, I would surely appreciate it alot. Thank you, James Falknor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4602 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From vasco at icpnet.pl Mon Jul 11 06:21:54 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:21:54 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> Uz.ytkownik James Falknor napisa?: > To all you programmers, > My ultimate goal is to bring Unix Version7 into the 21st century. And which hardware do You plan to support ? Unix Version 7 was as I understand designed for PDP-11 etc. Do You have running PDP machine ? Andrzej From wb at freebie.xs4all.nl Mon Jul 11 06:25:15 2005 From: wb at freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:25:15 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> Message-ID: <20050710202515.GA4495@freebie.xs4all.nl> On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 10:21:54PM +0200, Andrzej Popielewicz wrote.. > Uz.ytkownik James Falknor napisa?: > > > To all you programmers, > > My ultimate goal is to bring Unix Version7 into the 21st century. > > And which hardware do You plan to support ? Unix Version 7 was as I > understand designed for PDP-11 etc. Do You have running PDP machine ? You can also run on a PDP emulator. -- Wilko From james at peacemax.org Mon Jul 11 07:06:05 2005 From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:06:05 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> Message-ID: <42D18DBD.1010906@peacemax.org> Andrzej Popielewicz wrote: >Uz.ytkownik James Falknor napisa?: > > > >>To all you programmers, >>My ultimate goal is to bring Unix Version7 into the 21st century. >> >> > >And which hardware do You plan to support ? Unix Version 7 was as I >understand designed for PDP-11 etc. Do You have running PDP machine ? > >Andrzej > > Andrzej, My first goal is to achieve modern x86 system support. After all, somebody was able to get Unix Version6 to run on a 286 system. Eventually, achieve modern 64bit system support. James Falknor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4602 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From james at peacemax.org Mon Jul 11 07:09:45 2005 From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:09:45 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> Message-ID: <42D18E99.3040904@peacemax.org> Andrzej, My first goal is to achieve modern x86 system support. After all, somebody was able to get Unix Version6 to run on a 286 system. Eventually, achieve modern 64bit system support. James Falknor Andrzej Popielewicz wrote: >Uz.ytkownik James Falknor napisa?: > > > >>To all you programmers, >>My ultimate goal is to bring Unix Version7 into the 21st century. >> >> > >And which hardware do You plan to support ? Unix Version 7 was as I >understand designed for PDP-11 etc. Do You have running PDP machine ? > >Andrzej > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4602 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From james at peacemax.org Mon Jul 11 07:11:34 2005 From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:11:34 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> Message-ID: <42D18F06.3010104@peacemax.org> Andrzej, My first goal is to achieve modern x86 system support. After all, somebody was able to get Unix Version6 to run on a 286 system. Eventually, achieve modern 64bit system support. James Falknor Andrzej Popielewicz wrote: >Uz.ytkownik James Falknor napisa?: > > > >>To all you programmers, >>My ultimate goal is to bring Unix Version7 into the 21st century. >> >> > >And which hardware do You plan to support ? Unix Version 7 was as I >understand designed for PDP-11 etc. Do You have running PDP machine ? > >Andrzej > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From imp at bsdimp.com Mon Jul 11 09:28:10 2005 From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:28:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42D18F06.3010104@peacemax.org> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> <42D18F06.3010104@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <20050710.172810.99473416.imp@bsdimp.com> In message: <42D18F06.3010104 at peacemax.org> James Falknor writes: : somebody was able to get Unix Version6 to run on a 286 system. Venix 86 ran on my old Rainbow. That's a 8086. It was v6 based, iirc. Warner From chronaut at juno.com Mon Jul 11 10:28:30 2005 From: chronaut at juno.com (chronaut at juno.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 00:28:30 GMT Subject: [TUHS] Mark Williams Company Unix Message-ID: <20050710.172904.16679.31732@webmail39.nyc.untd.com> Hello everyone, I noticed that there were other flavors of Unix (on CD)for sale on the main website. I wondered who I needed to talk with, or send the $10.00 donation to, so I could get the Coherent stuff burned to CD ? Here's the directory I need. http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Other/Coherent/ My floppies with MWC Unix\X Xindows was stolen along with my automobile when I went to Jackson, MS to replace a retiring systems engineer. Anyway, help from anyone to get this done, would be very much appreciated. I have the original manuals, but no MWC Unix to go with it :) Thanks for any help ! Will ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! From james at peacemax.org Mon Jul 11 13:43:09 2005 From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 21:43:09 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <20050710.172810.99473416.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> <42D18F06.3010104@peacemax.org> <20050710.172810.99473416.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: <42D1EACD.8000701@peacemax.org> Warner, Where might I find the source code to Venix 86. I looked and could not find it here on THUS. Thank you, James Falknor M. Warner Losh wrote: >In message: <42D18F06.3010104 at peacemax.org> > James Falknor writes: >: somebody was able to get Unix Version6 to run on a 286 system. > >Venix 86 ran on my old Rainbow. That's a 8086. It was v6 based, >iirc. > >Warner > > > From imp at bsdimp.com Mon Jul 11 14:11:41 2005 From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:11:41 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42D1EACD.8000701@peacemax.org> References: <42D18F06.3010104@peacemax.org> <20050710.172810.99473416.imp@bsdimp.com> <42D1EACD.8000701@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <20050710.221141.91191873.imp@bsdimp.com> In message: <42D1EACD.8000701 at peacemax.org> James Falknor writes: : Where might I find the source code to Venix 86. I looked and could : not find it here on THUS. I'd love to know myself. All a google search has turned up is the DEC PRO version. Warner From vasco at icpnet.pl Mon Jul 11 18:38:47 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:38:47 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Mark Williams Company Unix In-Reply-To: <20050710.172904.16679.31732@webmail39.nyc.untd.com> References: <20050710.172904.16679.31732@webmail39.nyc.untd.com> Message-ID: <42D23017.1080102@icpnet.pl> Użytkownik chronaut at juno.com napisał: >Hello everyone, > > I noticed that there were other flavors of Unix (on CD)for sale on the main website. I wondered who I needed to talk with, or send the $10.00 donation to, so I could get the Coherent stuff burned to CD ? Here's the directory I need. > >http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Other/Coherent/ > >My floppies with MWC Unix\X Xindows was stolen along with my automobile when I went to > You need 4 floppies anyway to install Coherent. From chronaut at juno.com Tue Jul 12 08:29:55 2005 From: chronaut at juno.com (chronaut at juno.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:29:55 GMT Subject: [TUHS] Mark Williams Company Unix Message-ID: <20050711.153048.11993.44557@webmail35.nyc.untd.com> Yes I know, my originals were stolen when my car was stolen. I just don't have the time to download a mountain of software right now ! Will U�ytkownik chronaut at juno.com napisa�: Andrzej Popielewicz You need 4 floppies anyway to install Coherent. ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! From vasco at icpnet.pl Wed Jul 20 08:13:17 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:13:17 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42D18DBD.1010906@peacemax.org> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> <42D18DBD.1010906@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <42DD7AFD.5090307@icpnet.pl> Uz.ytkownik James Falknor napisa?: > My first goal is to achieve modern x86 system support. After all, > somebody was able to get Unix Version6 to run on a 286 system. > Eventually, achieve modern 64bit system support. Well , it seems to be a giant effort You are planning to accomplish. Because pdp and x86 have different architectures, a lot of new low level stuff will have to be added. The same concerns multitasking, multithreading , shared libraries etc. You will take these from BSD probably. So I am asking what are You planning to preserve in the modified system. Will it be still be a Unix Version 7 ? BTW I have ported apout emulator to Coherent. What I miss is "more" and "vi". Editing with "cat" is possible but not very useful. I am not going to learn "ed". Did You try to port "vi" to Unix Version 7 system ? I can build everything for V7 under Coherent, so I thought about vi. One would have to port curses . What about termcap and terminfo for V7 ? Andrzej From newsham at lava.net Thu Jul 21 03:21:04 2005 From: newsham at lava.net (Tim Newsham) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:21:04 -1000 (HST) Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42DD7AFD.5090307@icpnet.pl> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> <42D18DBD.1010906@peacemax.org> <42DD7AFD.5090307@icpnet.pl> Message-ID: > The same concerns multitasking, multithreading , shared libraries etc. V7 already multitasks. Why would you want shared libraries!? > BTW I have ported apout emulator to Coherent. What I miss is "more" and I have a small paging utility at http://lava.net/~newsham/x/machine/more_v6.c http://lava.net/~newsham/x/machine/more_v7.c > "vi". Editing with "cat" is possible but not very useful. I am not going > to learn "ed". Why? > Did You try to port "vi" to Unix Version 7 system ? I can Why!? > Andrzej If one wanted an architecturally clean and modern V7-like system that ran on the PC they could always install Plan9. Of course if you're porting V7 for the educational experience, more power to you. Tim Newsham http://www.lava.net/~newsham/ From vasco at icpnet.pl Thu Jul 21 05:50:53 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 21:50:53 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> <42D18DBD.1010906@peacemax.org> <42DD7AFD.5090307@icpnet.pl> Message-ID: <42DEAB1D.1020403@icpnet.pl> Uz.ytkownik Tim Newsham napisa?: >> The same concerns multitasking, multithreading , shared libraries etc. > > > V7 already multitasks. OK, so problem is solved.But I suspect it multitasks differently on different hardware, unless You use existing V7 x86 implementation. I do not know pdp architecture, I suspect it does differ from x86, I mean TSS,GDT, TR etc. > Why would you want shared libraries!? Not me, but others, and possibly James himself, he wanted to make V7 top modern. > http://lava.net/~newsham/x/machine/more_v6.c > http://lava.net/~newsham/x/machine/more_v7.c Fine, I will try it out.I let You know if it works on Coherent. I have already began to port more, but to finish I need to port termcap first. >> "vi". Editing with "cat" is possible but not very useful. I am not going >> to learn "ed". > > Why? Simply because. Because I do not like ed. I want to have useful and user friendly system. To use ed, only because it is the oldest editor, does not make any sense for me. I appreciate ed, because of sed, because sed has some similarity to ed and is extremely useful as a tool. Unix is not about ed, Unix is about unlimited possibilities of adding new software , new applications or new editors, it makes Unix beautiful that it can develop and not editor ed.If ed were all Unix has, it would not survive. I hope You accept that someone else can have different favourite editors. I prefer vi, or even more vim, which is perfect editor.Of course in the case of emulator missing user friendly editor is not a problem, because I can edit under Coherent and then build under emulator.It is good to have a choice, and Unix offers it. >> Did You try to port "vi" to Unix Version 7 system ? I can > > Why!? As I said, because I like vi more than ed. Do You suggest , that James should invest giant amount of time into porting V7 to x86/x64 and than after use only one editor , namely ed ? As if it was prohibited to develop another editor ? > If one wanted an architecturally clean and modern V7-like system > that ran on the PC they could always install Plan9. Of course if > you're porting V7 for the educational experience, more power to you. I do not know Plan9, but according to descriptions I have read, it looks very interesting. Well it was developed by Bell Lab...(?)-AT/T, which does not require recommendation.They offer also another interesting OS, namely Inferno. BTW, I am not porting it(V7), It is James , who wants to do it .So more power to him. I have enough fun with Coherent, it is according to wikipedia based on Unix version 7 and is x86. Andrzej From brantley at coraid.com Thu Jul 21 07:17:57 2005 From: brantley at coraid.com (Brantley Coile) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:17:57 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] (no subject) Message-ID: <1b49272b3bbc9700453cf18bc201181a@coraid.com> >>> "vi". Editing with "cat" is possible but not very useful. I am not going >>> to learn "ed". >> >> Why? > > Simply because. Because I do not like ed. > I want to have useful and user friendly system. To use ed, only because > it is the oldest editor, does not make any sense for me. > I appreciate ed, because of sed, because sed has some similarity to ed > and is extremely useful as a tool. > Unix is not about ed, Unix is about unlimited possibilities of adding > new software , new applications or new editors, it makes Unix beautiful > that it can develop and not editor ed.If ed were all Unix has, it would > not survive. > I hope You accept that someone else can have different favourite > editors. I prefer vi, or even more vim, which is perfect editor.Of > course in the case of emulator missing user friendly editor is not a > problem, because I can edit under Coherent and then build under > emulator.It is good to have a choice, and Unix offers it. In 1983 I was using vi. I allowed a friend to use our system to typeset his companies UNIX manuals, and quickly found that I was having to share the machine with a dozen troff jobs. Vi, being a program that ran in raw mode, didn't respond very well on that 68010 10Mhz system. I was forced to switch to ed. Suddenly I discovered that I had hidden real UNIX behind all those vi commands. I now had plenty of mental capacity to use the rest of the tools available. To really say you understand the spirit of the software tools approach, you must spend a couple of months just using ed. Today I use acme mostly, but still find myself using ed for some edits. I would really encourage you to give it a try. Spend two months just using ed. You cerntainly should use the editor you feel most confortable with, but the growing experience will be well worth your while. Brantley From brantley at coraid.com Thu Jul 21 07:18:24 2005 From: brantley at coraid.com (Brantley Coile) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:18:24 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition Message-ID: > I do not know Plan9, but according to descriptions I have read, it looks > very interesting. Well it was developed by Bell Lab...(?)-AT/T, which > does not require recommendation.They offer also another interesting OS, > namely Inferno. This is my last email on this subject. Promise. I suggest using the Plan 9 compilers and start with the code for the 32V system. That's the code that first ran on the VAX. It'll be easier to move than the PDP version. It's just Seventh Edition moved to the VAX. I'm using Plan 9 to type this. It's the os I have used as my primary os for the last 10 years. I wrote the Cisco PIX Firewall and the LocalDirector using it. I first used Plan 9 15 years ago at Bell Labs. In a very real sense, it is the true decendent of a very noble line of timesharing systems, going all the way back to MIT's CTSS. You should try Plan 9 for free by downloading it from Bell Labs. It's all open source. Expect to learn a lot. It's UNIX like a Ford Mustang is a T-Model. Lot of the ideas of V7-10 are further developed in Plan 9. It's certainly the os perfered by a good number of UNIX purests. It was the result of a number of poeple, including Ken Thompson, who thought that a fresh code start would allow them to better exploit new technology like networking, hetergenious processors, and symmetrical multiple processors. http://plan9.bell-labs.com I really hope James does the port. I wish I had the time to do it myself. A native V7 port would be really useful in some situations, but more importantly it would help educate new generations of programmers. It would demonstrate the true power and synergy of the software tools approach that UNIX blessed us with. It doesn't need shared libraries, threads, gui's or even vi. The Seventh Edition is amazing technology in a form that can be understood, internalized, and the resulting education used to produce much better modern software. There should be at least a version in it's native form. There's just something special about running it native. Brantley Coile From brantley at coraid.com Thu Jul 21 07:17:18 2005 From: brantley at coraid.com (Brantley Coile) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:17:18 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition Message-ID: > OK, so problem is solved.But I suspect it multitasks differently on > different hardware, unless You use existing V7 x86 implementation. I do > not know pdp architecture, I suspect it does differ from x86, I mean > TSS,GDT, TR etc. These details are hidden under the kernel. The idea of a process with address space and other contexts are what V7 provides. It's pretty easy to implement what V7 expects using Intel's paging. Brantley From vasco at icpnet.pl Thu Jul 21 09:05:18 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:05:18 +0200 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition] Message-ID: <42DED8AE.5080201@icpnet.pl> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Andrzej Popielewicz Subject: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:04:13 +0200 Size: 1827 URL: From vasco at icpnet.pl Thu Jul 21 09:32:49 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:32:49 +0200 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition] Message-ID: <42DEDF21.9090208@icpnet.pl> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Andrzej Popielewicz Subject: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:19:04 +0200 Size: 2004 URL: From vasco at icpnet.pl Thu Jul 21 09:33:06 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:33:06 +0200 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition] Message-ID: <42DEDF32.5070207@icpnet.pl> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Andrzej Popielewicz Subject: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:32:14 +0200 Size: 1962 URL: From james at peacemax.org Thu Jul 21 10:35:45 2005 From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:35:45 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition Message-ID: <42DEEDE1.6070609@peacemax.org> Thanks to all, This project is, indeed, for my own educational purposes. I have always been "all idea, no action" type of person. It's time for me to act on my ideas. I have started by comparing the differences between Unix V7, 32V, Coherent, and NetBSD code base. I wish to preserve as much of Unix V7 as possible. Unix V7 was not without code contributed by others, namely Universities around the world. I don't know the legal logistics, but I don't see any reason to change the name from Unix V7 to anything else. As I begin to make run time progress on this project, I will keep everybody notified. I will also be posting questions as they arise. Thank you, James Falknor (I know I'm not alone with a World of Programmers on this mailing list) From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Thu Jul 21 17:41:54 2005 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:41:54 +1200 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42DEAB1D.1020403@icpnet.pl> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42DEAB1D.1020403@icpnet.pl> Message-ID: <200507211941.54334.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 07:50, Andrzej Popielewicz wrote: > Uz.ytkownik Tim Newsham napisa?: > >> "vi". Editing with "cat" is possible but not very useful. I am not going > >> to learn "ed". > > > > Why? > > Simply because. Because I do not like ed. > I want to have useful and user friendly system. To use ed, only because > it is the oldest editor, does not make any sense for me. > I appreciate ed, because of sed, because sed has some similarity to ed > and is extremely useful as a tool. If you have a look at the more modern *BSD, you'll see that vi contains ed and ex. It should be possible to backport that to V7 and likewise to Coherent. > Unix is not about ed, Unix is about unlimited possibilities of adding > new software , new applications or new editors, it makes Unix beautiful > that it can develop and not editor ed.If ed were all Unix has, it would > not survive. > I hope You accept that someone else can have different favourite > editors. I prefer vi, or even more vim, which is perfect editor.Of > course in the case of emulator missing user friendly editor is not a > problem, because I can edit under Coherent and then build under > emulator.It is good to have a choice, and Unix offers it. > > >> Did You try to port "vi" to Unix Version 7 system ? I can > > > > Why!? > > As I said, because I like vi more than ed. Do You suggest , that James > should invest giant amount of time into porting V7 to x86/x64 and than > after use only one editor , namely ed ? As if it was prohibited to > develop another editor ? > > > Andrzej > Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. From vasco at icpnet.pl Thu Jul 21 18:35:05 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:35:05 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <200507211941.54334.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42DEAB1D.1020403@icpnet.pl> <200507211941.54334.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <42DF5E39.3080101@icpnet.pl> Uz.ytkownik Wesley Parish napisa?: >If you have a look at the more modern *BSD, you'll see that vi contains ed >and ex. It should be possible to backport that to V7 and likewise to >Coherent. > > What for ? Vim 6.1(my port) under Coherent works perfectly. And of course Coherent has its own very good vi and also ed and microEmacs and as far as I rememeber (I have seen on Tuhs) Emacs too. I have ported also mp( ala DOS edit) , asedit,xed(better version of xedit) .Unfortunately I was not lucky with gvim and nedit.I have added also about 1990 my own editor cedit(with hex support ala vim), but it was for Coherent 4.0 and I did not port it to Coherent 4.2.10 yet. OK, but if You see it does make sense than do it. From vasco at icpnet.pl Thu Jul 21 19:27:15 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:27:15 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <200507211941.54334.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42DEAB1D.1020403@icpnet.pl> <200507211941.54334.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <42DF6A73.6000400@icpnet.pl> Uz.ytkownik Wesley Parish napisa?: >If you have a look at the more modern *BSD, you'll see that vi contains ed >and ex. It should be possible to backport that to V7 and likewise to >Coherent. > > According to Coherent Manual : ***** Coherent vi is a link to Berkeley screen editor elvis by Kirkendall from 1990. elvis is a clone of Unix vi and ex editors. elvis command structure ressembles command structure of line editor ed. ***** From vasco at icpnet.pl Thu Jul 21 19:28:37 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:28:37 +0200 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition] Message-ID: <42DF6AC5.2010103@icpnet.pl> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Andrzej Popielewicz Subject: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:27:15 +0200 Size: 1177 URL: From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Thu Jul 21 21:44:12 2005 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:44:12 +1200 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42DF6A73.6000400@icpnet.pl> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <200507211941.54334.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> <42DF6A73.6000400@icpnet.pl> Message-ID: <200507212344.12405.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:27, Andrzej Popielewicz wrote: > Uz.ytkownik Wesley Parish napisa?: > >If you have a look at the more modern *BSD, you'll see that vi contains > > ed and ex. It should be possible to backport that to V7 and likewise to > > Coherent. > > According to Coherent Manual : > ***** > Coherent vi is a link to Berkeley screen editor elvis by Kirkendall from > 1990. > elvis is a clone of Unix vi and ex editors. > elvis command structure ressembles command structure of line editor ed. > ***** Makes sense. My bad. Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. From gunnarr at acm.org Fri Jul 22 03:15:48 2005 From: gunnarr at acm.org (Gunnar Ritter) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:15:48 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <200507211941.54334.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42DEAB1D.1020403@icpnet.pl> <200507211941.54334.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <42dfd844.gGVrLFVHAobYRgcn%gunnarr@acm.org> Wesley Parish wrote: > If you have a look at the more modern *BSD, you'll see that vi contains ed > and ex. Which BSD implementation of vi contains ed? > It should be possible to backport that to V7 and likewise to > Coherent. For Unix 7th edition, you can just use vi version 2 from one of the early 2BSD releases. Gunnar From vasco at icpnet.pl Fri Jul 22 05:45:24 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:45:24 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <20050721164429.60aa8811.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> <42D18362.5050102@icpnet.pl> <42D18DBD.1010906@peacemax.org> <42DD7AFD.5090307@icpnet.pl> <20050721164429.60aa8811.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es> Message-ID: <42DFFB54.80205@icpnet.pl> Użytkownik José R. Valverde napisał: >Looks like overkill to me. It made lots of sense way back then, but as you >are speaking of an X86 port and you can assume an ANSI terminal to be the >default and available, you may as well (at least as a start) do without >termcap and terminfo (BTW I'd bet you don't need support for almost none >of those ancient terminals). > I do not need curses or termcap or terminfo to work under simulated pdp environment via apout in Coherent. As I said I can build everything(using V7 make,cc ans as), it means I can work, and I do not need ANSI terminal (if You have meant true VT100 terminal, and not TERM=vt100 on PC, BTW apout for version 7 assumes as default TERM=vt100 ). I was meaning building in pdp environment running in Coherent, and not building in Coherent via for example a crosscompiler or so. One needs termcap or terminfo if one wants to port more sophisticated tools like vi etc. > >What you can get is then a simpler screen-oriented text editor which can >easily be ported and then used as a bootstrap to port more advanced tools. > >Namely, S from 'A Software Tools Sampler' by Webb Miller. I ported and used >it on both V6 and V7, and still use it on V7 on SIMH. Neat, small, easy to >port, usage alike vi, but much simpler... And comes with some other >interesting tools (actually my first involvement with that code was to have a >unix-like toolkit on eraly VMS long, long ago). > >The code is available on the Net, but I'm including it here as an attachment >as it is not that big (52K). > > j > > Great, I will try it out. I have already tested succesfully more_v7 , which I obtained from Tim. Thanks. I will let You know how it works. Andrzej From PeterJeremy at optushome.com.au Fri Jul 22 17:37:04 2005 From: PeterJeremy at optushome.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:37:04 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition In-Reply-To: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> References: <42CFF030.4080609@peacemax.org> Message-ID: <20050722073703.GA5352@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> On Sat, 2005-Jul-09 09:41:36 -0600, James Falknor wrote: > My ultimate goal is to bring Unix Version7 into the 21st century. That's already been done: Look at 2.11BSD. Note that getting V7 (or 2BSD) running on a 286 is non-trivial. Whilst both the PDP-11 and 286 are both 16-bit machines supporting VM, the 286 MMU is extremely primitive compared to the PDP-11. Your biggest problem will be that the 286 does not support holes in the address space - which means your data segment needs to cover both the real data as well as the stack area and you lose brk limit checking. -- Peter Jeremy From james at peacemax.org Thu Jul 28 10:20:08 2005 From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:20:08 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] IBM Xenix 1.00 Message-ID: <42E824B8.9060605@peacemax.org> To all concerned, I recently came into possesion of IBM's Xenix 1.00 on 5.25 floppy disks for free. Problem is that it is missing disk 3 of 3 or the 4th disk in the set. I have the Installation disk, Disk 1 of 3, and Disk 2 of 3. Does anybody, by any chance, have the 4th disk, Disk 3 of 3 that they would be willing to share? Or, is that not allowed to be asked here? Thank you, James