From bmidgley at gmail.com Thu Nov 1 03:39:58 2007 From: bmidgley at gmail.com (Brad Midgley) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:39:58 -0600 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah Message-ID: Hi I have a pdp11 (about the size of a 6u rackmount) free if anyone is interested. -- Brad From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com Thu Nov 1 06:44:50 2007 From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:44:50 -0400 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18d205ed0710311344g13a53c8bo9fbdd03b73ef4ae1@mail.gmail.com> On 10/31/07, Brad Midgley wrote: > Hi > > I have a pdp11 (about the size of a 6u rackmount) free if anyone is interested. > > -- > Brad > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > Hello! Brad, I am interested, although the space in my apartment would be the big issue. The problem is that I am in an apartment in NYC, Queens to be exact. Just how hard would it be to send it to me? If its both cost and space excessive then perhaps others on the list would be interested. Oh and which model is this fellow? I am looking for a PDP-11/53, and have been for many years. -- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature was once found posting rude messages in English in the Moscow subway." From bmidgley at gmail.com Thu Nov 1 09:09:15 2007 From: bmidgley at gmail.com (Brad Midgley) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:09:15 -0600 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah In-Reply-To: <18d205ed0710311344g13a53c8bo9fbdd03b73ef4ae1@mail.gmail.com> References: <18d205ed0710311344g13a53c8bo9fbdd03b73ef4ae1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: hi I really hope someone local has an interest. We'll see. > Oh and which model is this fellow? I am looking for a PDP-11/53, and > have been for many years. I'm not sure... I'd like to know too. It's 7x22x27 inches, just says "digital micro pdp-11" on the front, has a full-height hard drive and tape drive showing on the left. four expansion areas in the back (a,b,c,d) with only a populated (with four 25-pin connectors). it has four toggle buttons on the front that light up when toggled in: orange, red, green and i think the last one is reset. i connected a terminal up to the port hand-labeled "console" but tried a few terminal settings with no result. -- Brad From wb at freebie.xs4all.nl Thu Nov 1 17:21:39 2007 From: wb at freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:21:39 +0100 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah In-Reply-To: References: <18d205ed0710311344g13a53c8bo9fbdd03b73ef4ae1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071101072139.GA30887@freebie.xs4all.nl> Quoting Brad Midgley, who wrote on Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 05:09:15PM -0600 .. > hi > > I really hope someone local has an interest. We'll see. > > > Oh and which model is this fellow? I am looking for a PDP-11/53, and > > have been for many years. > > I'm not sure... I'd like to know too. It's 7x22x27 inches, just says > "digital micro pdp-11" on the front, has a full-height hard drive and Picture?? > tape drive showing on the left. four expansion areas in the back > (a,b,c,d) with only a populated (with four 25-pin connectors). it has > four toggle buttons on the front that light up when toggled in: > orange, red, green and i think the last one is reset. i connected a > terminal up to the port hand-labeled "console" but tried a few > terminal settings with no result. > > -- > Brad > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups --- end of quoted text --- -- Wilko From milov at uwlax.edu Thu Nov 1 23:02:15 2007 From: milov at uwlax.edu (Milo Velimirovic) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:02:15 -0500 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:39:58 -0600 > From: "Brad Midgley" > Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah > To: pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi > > I have a pdp11 (about the size of a 6u rackmount) free if anyone is > interested. This sounds like a Digital BA-11 of some sort. It could be something as early as a pdp 11/20, 11/05, 11/34, 11/35, or as late as a 11/24 or 11/44 -- possibly others. > > -- > Brad > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:44:50 -0400 > From: "Gregg Levine" > Subject: Re: [pups] pdp11 in Utah > To: "Brad Midgley" > Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: > <18d205ed0710311344g13a53c8bo9fbdd03b73ef4ae1 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 10/31/07, Brad Midgley wrote: >> Hi >> >> I have a pdp11 (about the size of a 6u rackmount) free if anyone >> is interested. >> >> -- >> Brad >> _______________________________________________ >> PUPS mailing list >> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >> > Hello! > Brad, I am interested, although the space in my apartment would be the > big issue. The problem is that I am in an apartment in NYC, Queens to > be exact. Just how hard would it be to send it to me? Not easy or cheap. It's bulky, heavy and would usually require 2 persons to move around. I've moved various of my pdp11s around and it's always been hard work. Stashing a case of beer in the bottom of an H960 is good incentive for assistants. > If its both cost > and space excessive then perhaps others on the list would be > interested. > > Oh and which model is this fellow? I am looking for a PDP-11/53, and > have been for many years. e-Bay? > -- > Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com > "This signature was once found posting rude > messages in English in the Moscow subway." [snip] -- Milo Velimirović, Unix Computer Network Administrator 608-785-6618 Office - 608-386-2817 Cell University of Wisconsin - La Crosse La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 48 N 91 13 53 W -- There's a reason Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson have been awarded the U.S. National Medal of Technology (1998) and are fellows of the Computer History Museum Online. Dave Cutler hasn't and isn't. "You are not expected to understand this." From bmidgley at gmail.com Fri Nov 2 00:34:12 2007 From: bmidgley at gmail.com (Brad Midgley) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:34:12 -0600 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hey > This sounds like a Digital BA-11 of some sort. It could be something > as early as a pdp 11/20, 11/05, 11/34, 11/35, or as late as a 11/24 > or 11/44 -- possibly others. I think the toggle switches on the front need to be set right and the terminal settings need to be guessed at to talk over serial. The pics probably don't reveal much but they're easier than describing it. http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/front.jpg http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/back.jpg I don't have the inclination to tear it open. -- Brad From fred.van.kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Nov 2 01:25:43 2007 From: fred.van.kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:25:43 +0100 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah Message-ID: Hi All, That's a BA23 in tower stand, aka a room heater. The system looks like a Micro-PDP11/23 or /53. The tape unit seems to be an old model TK50 (it has no markings, which was standard for the old units), the disk could be an RD-53, it has the same alu frame. Other disks (RD54) are full-metal, or smaller (RD31, 32, 20). The buttons on the front panel seem to be just 4, not 6. The original Micro-11 (aka 11/23) had 4, because it could handle only a single disk (the 10MB disk RD50); the newer systems had two extra buttons (online and WP) for a second disk. So... looks like a Micro-11[/23] with larger than standard disk (RD53)and the original TK50 tape. On the back panel we only see the bulkhead for the system-standard DZV-11 4-port async module, of which ports 0 and 1 (console and aux, resp) are in semi-fixed mode. Cheers, Fred PS: for people in NL; I have a few 11/53 systems left... :) From kees.stravers at xs4all.nl Fri Nov 2 01:15:52 2007 From: kees.stravers at xs4all.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:15:52 +0100 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4729EDA8.3030804@xs4all.nl> This is a BA23 box with what looks like an early PDP-11/23 in it. You have it upside down on the photo, so it is best to turn it over, or else the power supply will burn out because of overheating. The power switch should be at the top. It has a RD53 70 MB Micropolis harddrive and a TK50 95MB tape drive. Since it has four serial ports, one of which is the console, I think it has a CPU card without a serial console port on it, which makes it an early one. In those cases a separate four port serial card was installed, with the first port set to the console address. I have such a system in my collection. Kees Brad Midgley wrote: > hey > >> This sounds like a Digital BA-11 of some sort. It could be something >> as early as a pdp 11/20, 11/05, 11/34, 11/35, or as late as a 11/24 >> or 11/44 -- possibly others. > > I think the toggle switches on the front need to be set right and the > terminal settings need to be guessed at to talk over serial. The pics > probably don't reveal much but they're easier than describing it. > > http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/front.jpg > http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/back.jpg > > I don't have the inclination to tear it open. > From bob at jfcl.com Fri Nov 2 01:34:24 2007 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:34:24 -0700 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c81c9c$ae5dfc10$cb01010a@Rhyme> >http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/back.jpg I should have paid more attention - since it doesn't appear to have an CPU control panel in the back, then we can guess that it must be a KDF11A 11/23 CPU and the four serial ports that you see are a DLV11J. No way of knowing whether it's a real 11/23 or a 11/23+ without reading the M number off the CPU card. It probably also has a BDV11, some amount of memory, a RQDX1 and of course a TK/TQK50. Bob From bob at jfcl.com Fri Nov 2 01:27:07 2007 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:27:07 -0700 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c81c9b$aaf01af0$cb01010a@Rhyme> >http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/front.jpg >http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/back.jpg It's an 11/23 or 11/73 in a BA23 box (assuming it's not actually a MicroVAX, that is :-). A nice system for running 2.11 or 2.9BSD, but nothing rare. If you open the card cage and read the module numbers (they'll be "M" and four digits) off the edges of the cards, then we can tell you exactly what it is. BTW, I assume you know that you have it upside down ... Bob Armstrong From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 2 02:28:19 2007 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 12:28:19 -0400 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah In-Reply-To: <4729EDA8.3030804@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <00b201c81ca4$3fd5ce50$6401a8c0@who8> Hello! (Regular address time.) Yes I agree from your photos he is standing on his head. And judging from everyone else's descriptions, he's slightly larger then the others who live here. Have there been any other takers? -- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net "The Force will be with you always." Obi-Wan Kenobi   > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf > Of Kees Stravers > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 11:16 AM > To: Brad Midgley > Cc: Milo Velimirovic; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] pdp11 in Utah > > This is a BA23 box with what looks like an early PDP-11/23 in it. You > have it upside down on the photo, so it is best to turn it over, or else > the power supply will burn out because of overheating. The power switch > should be at the top. It has a RD53 70 MB Micropolis harddrive and a > TK50 95MB tape drive. Since it has four serial ports, one of which is > the console, I think it has a CPU card without a serial console port on > it, which makes it an early one. In those cases a separate four port > serial card was installed, with the first port set to the console > address. I have such a system in my collection. > Kees > > Brad Midgley wrote: > > hey > > > >> This sounds like a Digital BA-11 of some sort. It could be something > >> as early as a pdp 11/20, 11/05, 11/34, 11/35, or as late as a 11/24 > >> or 11/44 -- possibly others. > > > > I think the toggle switches on the front need to be set right and the > > terminal settings need to be guessed at to talk over serial. The pics > > probably don't reveal much but they're easier than describing it. > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/front.jpg > > http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/back.jpg > > > > I don't have the inclination to tear it open. > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From tfb at tfeb.org Fri Nov 2 03:31:52 2007 From: tfb at tfeb.org (Tim Bradshaw) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 17:31:52 +0000 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK Message-ID: Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super) minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical, so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11. What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/ or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19" racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah. So I guess I have two questions: Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit). Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might get that way. Thanks --tim From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Fri Nov 2 20:34:38 2007 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 23:34:38 +1300 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> To add to this, there used to be a book on computer engineering with details on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have been a PDP-11.) Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University textbook I think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an updated PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for anyone with a soldering iron and enough time, to play with? I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in one fell swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working and available PDP-11 in the UK. Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;) Wesley Parish On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote: > Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super) > minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't > pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical, > so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11. > > What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/ > or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19" > racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me > like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed > 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah. > > So I guess I have two questions: > > Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW > etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least > partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to > keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some > cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life > trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting > things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit). > > Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of > course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect > to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might > get that way. > > Thanks > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom of the foolish. ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. From rob at vetsystems.com Fri Nov 2 21:35:47 2007 From: rob at vetsystems.com (Robert Tillyard) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:35:47 +0000 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> References: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <5BD18C01-4C8A-49D0-90D2-D97AA855FFDA@vetsystems.com> On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote: > To add to this, there used to be a book on computer engineering with > details > on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have > been a > PDP-11.) > > Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University > textbook I > think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an > updated > PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for > anyone with a > soldering iron and enough time, to play with? > > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in > one fell > swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working > and > available PDP-11 in the UK. > > Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;) > > Wesley Parish > > On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote: >> Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super) >> minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't >> pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical, >> so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11. >> >> What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/ >> or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19" >> racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me >> like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed >> 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah. >> >> So I guess I have two questions: >> >> Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW >> etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least >> partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to >> keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some >> cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life >> trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting >> things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit). >> >> Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of >> course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect >> to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might >> get that way. >> >> Thanks >> >> --tim >> > -- > Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish > ----- > Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are > impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla > warfare means up to their monkey tricks. > Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom > of the foolish. > ----- > Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? > You ask, what is the most important thing? > Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. > I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. From rob at vetsystems.com Fri Nov 2 22:03:42 2007 From: rob at vetsystems.com (Robert Tillyard) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:03:42 +0000 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> References: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: Sorry my previous message seemed to be missing the text that I wanted to send... see below... I have what I believe is a PDP 11/23 in a cabinet with two RL02 drives. I rescued it from a company who were just going to skip it in the 90's. I've never used it and don't have an OS for it but the company had been using it up until the day the that I rescued it. The machine is located in Bury St. Edmunds in Suffolk. If someone can put this to good use then they can have it. I'll post a picture of it up somewhere tonight to help identify it. I think it may have some schematics with it as well. Regards, Rob. On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote: > To add to this, there used to be a book on computer engineering with > details > on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have > been a > PDP-11.) > > Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University > textbook I > think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an > updated > PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for > anyone with a > soldering iron and enough time, to play with? > > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in > one fell > swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working > and > available PDP-11 in the UK. > > Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;) > > Wesley Parish > > On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote: >> Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super) >> minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't >> pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical, >> so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11. >> >> What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/ >> or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19" >> racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me >> like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed >> 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah. >> >> So I guess I have two questions: >> >> Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW >> etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least >> partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to >> keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some >> cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life >> trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting >> things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit). >> >> Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of >> course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect >> to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might >> get that way. >> >> Thanks >> >> --tim >> _______________________________________________ >> PUPS mailing list >> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > -- > Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish > ----- > Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are > impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla > warfare means up to their monkey tricks. > Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom > of the foolish. > ----- > Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? > You ask, what is the most important thing? > Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. > I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From brantley at coraid.com Fri Nov 2 23:42:47 2007 From: brantley at coraid.com (Brantley Coile) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:42:47 -0400 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: Wes, Is this the book you are thinking of? http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/index.html > To add to this, there used to be a book on computer engineering with details > on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have been a > PDP-11.) > > Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University textbook I > think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an updated > PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for anyone with a > soldering iron and enough time, to play with? > > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in one fell > swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working and > available PDP-11 in the UK. > > Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;) > > Wesley Parish > > On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote: >> Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super) >> minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't >> pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical, >> so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11. >> >> What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/ >> or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19" >> racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me >> like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed >> 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah. >> >> So I guess I have two questions: >> >> Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW >> etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least >> partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to >> keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some >> cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life >> trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting >> things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit). >> >> Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of >> course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect >> to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might >> get that way. >> >> Thanks >> >> --tim >> _______________________________________________ >> PUPS mailing list >> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > -- > Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish > ----- > Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are > impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla > warfare means up to their monkey tricks. > Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom > of the foolish. > ----- > Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? > You ask, what is the most important thing? > Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. > I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From tfb at tfeb.org Fri Nov 2 23:38:54 2007 From: tfb at tfeb.org (Tim Bradshaw) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:38:54 +0000 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> References: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote: > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in > one fell > swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a > working and > available PDP-11 in the UK. It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car, or computer, because it's vintage. --tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma replica...) From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com Sat Nov 3 00:15:26 2007 From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:15:26 -0400 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: References: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <18d205ed0711020715t12c7091awac6649f4efd2db0a@mail.gmail.com> On 11/2/07, Tim Bradshaw wrote: > On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote: > > > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in > > one fell > > swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a > > working and > > available PDP-11 in the UK. > > It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like > making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to > fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in > existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car, > or computer, because it's vintage. > > --tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma > replica...) Hello! There is just such a textbook, I've read it. However as luck would have it today I can not remember its title. It might be the one that MSResearch remembers, but its unlikely at best. -- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature was once found posting rude messages in English in the Moscow subway." From carl.lowenstein at gmail.com Sat Nov 3 02:28:07 2007 From: carl.lowenstein at gmail.com (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:28:07 -0700 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: <18d205ed0711020715t12c7091awac6649f4efd2db0a@mail.gmail.com> References: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> <18d205ed0711020715t12c7091awac6649f4efd2db0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5904d5730711020928n217a681ar693c4fdf32630a96@mail.gmail.com> On 11/2/07, Gregg Levine wrote: > On 11/2/07, Tim Bradshaw wrote: > > On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote: > > > > > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in > > > one fell > > > swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a > > > working and > > > available PDP-11 in the UK. > > > > It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like > > making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to > > fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in > > existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car, > > or computer, because it's vintage. > > > > --tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma > > replica...) > > Hello! > There is just such a textbook, I've read it. However as luck would > have it today I can not remember its title. It might be the one that > MSResearch remembers, but its unlikely at best. Are you perhaps thinking of _The Art of Digital Design_? carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein at ucsd.edu From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Nov 3 08:07:31 2007 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:07:31 +0100 Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah In-Reply-To: <000301c81c9c$ae5dfc10$cb01010a@Rhyme> References: <000301c81c9c$ae5dfc10$cb01010a@Rhyme> Message-ID: <20071102230731.6510ea3a@SirToby.dinner41.local> On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:34:24 -0700 "Robert Armstrong" wrote: > I should have paid more attention - since it doesn't appear to have > an CPU > control panel in the back, then we can guess that it must be a KDF11A > 11/23 CPU and the four serial ports that you see are a DLV11J. There is also the M8192 KDJ11 / 11/73 CPU. It is a dual with QBus card like the M8186 and intended as a upgrade for the M8186. The M8192 has no console SLU nor ROM. I have such a M8192 in my 11/73, that lives in a BA23... -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com Sat Nov 3 09:52:30 2007 From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:52:30 -0400 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: <5904d5730711020928n217a681ar693c4fdf32630a96@mail.gmail.com> References: <200711022334.39669.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> <18d205ed0711020715t12c7091awac6649f4efd2db0a@mail.gmail.com> <5904d5730711020928n217a681ar693c4fdf32630a96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <18d205ed0711021652h6a8fc770h7c3d44ed697e6e58@mail.gmail.com> On 11/2/07, Carl Lowenstein wrote: > On 11/2/07, Gregg Levine wrote: > > On 11/2/07, Tim Bradshaw wrote: > > > On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote: > > > > > > > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in > > > > one fell > > > > swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a > > > > working and > > > > available PDP-11 in the UK. > > > > > > It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like > > > making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to > > > fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in > > > existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car, > > > or computer, because it's vintage. > > > > > > --tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma > > > replica...) > > > > Hello! > > There is just such a textbook, I've read it. However as luck would > > have it today I can not remember its title. It might be the one that > > MSResearch remembers, but its unlikely at best. > > Are you perhaps thinking of _The Art of Digital Design_? > > > > carl > -- > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > clowenstein at ucsd.edu > Hello! Actually yes! That is the book I was trying to think of this morning. I even came very close to building the thing, but ran out of time trying to find the parts, let alone the actual time needed to build the thing. Since their ideas are good ones for what I do, I'll probably buy the book via that method from Amazon, in addition to a few trillion others. -- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature was once found posting rude messages in English in the Moscow subway." From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Sat Nov 3 17:58:03 2007 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 20:58:03 +1300 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200711032058.03972.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> On Saturday 03 November 2007 02:42, Brantley Coile wrote: > Wes, > Is this the book you are thinking of? > > http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/index.html Yes, thanks! Wesley Parish > > > To add to this, there used to be a book on computer engineering with > > details on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even > > have been a PDP-11.) > > > > Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University > > textbook I think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone > > have an updated PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to > > PUPS for anyone with a soldering iron and enough time, to play with? > > > > I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in one > > fell swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working > > and available PDP-11 in the UK. > > > > Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;) > > > > Wesley Parish > > > > On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote: > >> Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super) > >> minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't > >> pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical, > >> so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11. > >> > >> What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/ > >> or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19" > >> racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me > >> like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed > >> 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah. > >> > >> So I guess I have two questions: > >> > >> Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW > >> etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least > >> partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to > >> keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some > >> cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life > >> trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting > >> things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit). > >> > >> Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of > >> course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect > >> to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might > >> get that way. > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> --tim > >> _______________________________________________ > >> PUPS mailing list > >> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > > > -- > > Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish > > ----- > > Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are > > impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla > > warfare means up to their monkey tricks. > > Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom > > of the foolish. > > ----- > > Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? > > You ask, what is the most important thing? > > Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. > > I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom of the foolish. ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. From tfb at tfeb.org Tue Nov 13 20:55:05 2007 From: tfb at tfeb.org (Tim Bradshaw) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:55:05 +0000 Subject: [pups] Any comments on this (was Re: Suitable PDP11s, in the UK) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <575B1B61-0930-43D9-A121-C0FAB8C832CE@tfeb.org> First of all thanks to everyone who replied following my earlier enquiry. Someone is selling what he claims is an 11/73, in the UK: http:// cgi.ebay.co.uk/Original-Vintage-DEC-PDP-11-73-Display-All- Working_W0QQitemZ110191110904QQihZ001QQcategoryZ4193QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem It looks may be too expensive to me (he's listed it before and no one bid then). But if I was interested my guess at questions to ask would really be what disk (model) does it have because that's what would affect reliability the most. Anyone have any suggestions as to anything else I should ask? Thanks, and apologies if this is abuse of the list (someone say if it is, and I'll shut up). --tim From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk Tue Nov 13 21:14:23 2007 From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (robinb at ruffnready.co.uk) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:14:23 +0000 Subject: [pups] Any comments on this (was Re: Suitable PDP11s, in the UK) In-Reply-To: <575B1B61-0930-43D9-A121-C0FAB8C832CE@tfeb.org> Message-ID: Hi Tim, It's probably got an RD53 in it. An RD52 would be right for a box starting out as a 23 but I wouldn't have thought that you could get a workable unix on the system with only a 52. The problem is that 53s are not the most reliable of hard discs. I haven't forgotten you, I still need to go to the second lockup to find out what I've got stashed. Robin tfb at tfeb.org wrote: > First of all thanks to everyone who replied following my earlier > enquiry. > > Someone is selling what he claims is an 11/73, in the UK: http:// > cgi.ebay.co.uk/Original-Vintage-DEC-PDP-11-73-Display-All- > Working_W0QQitemZ110191110904QQihZ001QQcategoryZ4193QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr > dZ1QQcmdZViewItem > > It looks may be too expensive to me (he's listed it before and no one > bid then). But if I was interested my guess at questions to ask > would really be what disk (model) does it have because that's what > would affect reliability the most. Anyone have any suggestions as to > anything else I should ask? > > Thanks, and apologies if this is abuse of the list (someone say if it > is, and I'll shut up). > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > From fragula at hyperdark.org Tue Nov 13 23:57:47 2007 From: fragula at hyperdark.org (Fragula) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:57:47 +0000 Subject: [pups] Any comments on this (was Re: Suitable PDP11s, in the UK) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4739AD5B.2070707@hyperdark.org> robinb at ruffnready.co.uk wrote: >Hi Tim, >It's probably got an RD53 in it. An RD52 would be right for a box starting out as a 23 but I wouldn't have thought that you could get a workable unix on the system with only a 52. The problem is that 53s are not the most reliable of hard discs. > >I haven't forgotten you, I still need to go to the second lockup to find out what I've got stashed. > > > Mmmm.. I must get around to doing something with my RD51/RX50AA and *no ethernetted MicroPDP11/23. It's got MicroRSX on at the mo and, apart from an occasionally RAM fault that seems to float around occastionally, its in perfect nick. (its only been doing heat and blow-dry duties in my bedroom for the last 14 years;-) I suppose I'll have to upgrade the hard disk somehow.. Got a known-good ST-225 with a 512B/Sector LL format kicking around. (oh.. i have a great attic.. :-) though I expect I'll have to reformat and DECcify them somehow.. The silver lining there being that I can put the MicroRSX RD51 in "a safe place" for posterity.. no other reason really. I'm kinda reluctant to erase it. Then it's finding what ethernet will fitt the bill w. BSD and the u11/23. NDG without networking. Ohh.. And I have to find a way to interface an ex-Vax TK-50 with the Micro 11/23 too. Helpfull post, or amusing yarns, welcome. Cheers! M. From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk Wed Nov 14 01:28:05 2007 From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (robinb at ruffnready.co.uk) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:28:05 +0000 Subject: [pups] Any comments on this (was Re: Suitable PDP11s, in the UK) In-Reply-To: <4739AD5B.2070707@hyperdark.org> Message-ID: Hi, If you can get a big enough disc to load BSD2.11 then the networking will work fine. You will be able to get resolve to work but the nameserver is too much and you'll need to point to something else for that. I used to run my pdp in a network of freebsd and windows PCs quite happily. Robin fragula at hyperdark.org wrote: > robinb at ruffnready.co.uk wrote: > > >Hi Tim, > >It's probably got an RD53 in it. An RD52 would be right for a box starting out as a 23 but I wouldn't have thought that you could get a workable unix on the system with only a 52. The problem is that 53s are not the most reliable of hard discs. > > > >I haven't forgotten you, I still need to go to the second lockup to find out what I've got stashed. > > > > > > > Mmmm.. I must get around to doing something with my RD51/RX50AA and *no > ethernetted MicroPDP11/23. It's got MicroRSX on at the mo and, apart > from an occasionally RAM fault that seems to float around occastionally, > its in perfect nick. (its only been doing heat and blow-dry duties in my > bedroom for the last 14 years;-) > > I suppose I'll have to upgrade the hard disk somehow.. Got a known-good > ST-225 with a 512B/Sector LL format kicking around. (oh.. i have a great > attic.. :-) though I expect I'll have to reformat and DECcify them > somehow.. > > The silver lining there being that I can put the MicroRSX RD51 in "a > safe place" for posterity.. no other reason really. I'm kinda reluctant > to erase it. > > Then it's finding what ethernet will fitt the bill w. BSD and the > u11/23. NDG without networking. > > Ohh.. And I have to find a way to interface an ex-Vax TK-50 with the > Micro 11/23 too. > > Helpfull post, or amusing yarns, welcome. > > Cheers! > > M. > > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > From rde at tavi.co.uk Sat Nov 3 00:59:49 2007 From: rde at tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:59:49 +0000 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK Message-ID: <20071102145947.DB047C137@kipling.tavi.co.uk> ** Reply to note from Brantley Coile Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:42:47 -0400 > Wes, > Is this the book you are thinking of? > > http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/index.html Probably was! I just bought a copy on eBay a couple of weeks ago, and have just read it cover to cover. A bit dry at the start, but fascinating...I starting using PDP11s back in 1972. (an 11/20) And used what I think was the first v6 UNIX system in England... Bob cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org From toby at smartgames.ca Sat Nov 17 23:08:32 2007 From: toby at smartgames.ca (Toby Thain) Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:08:32 -0200 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: <20071102145947.DB047C137@kipling.tavi.co.uk> References: <20071102145947.DB047C137@kipling.tavi.co.uk> Message-ID: On 2-Nov-07, at 11:59 AM, Bob Eager wrote: > ** Reply to note from Brantley Coile Fri, 2 > Nov 2007 09:42:47 -0400 > >> Wes, >> Is this the book you are thinking of? >> >> http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/ >> index.html > > Probably was! > > I just bought a copy on eBay a couple of weeks ago, and have just > read it > cover to cover. There's more than one edition. I bought both but I don't have them with me here to provide details. It's worth also finding the other one, as it has a different cross-section of designs. Should be easily found on abebooks.com, bibliofind etc. --Toby > A bit dry at the start, but fascinating...I starting using > PDP11s back in 1972. (an 11/20) > > And used what I think was the first v6 UNIX system in England... > > > > Bob > > cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From toby at smartgames.ca Sun Nov 18 04:53:42 2007 From: toby at smartgames.ca (Toby Thain) Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 16:53:42 -0200 Subject: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK In-Reply-To: <20071117182041.77324C13F@kipling.tavi.co.uk> References: <20071117182041.77324C13F@kipling.tavi.co.uk> Message-ID: <91F9D1E2-6FD6-45FF-BC2C-8FD743CD798B@smartgames.ca> On 17-Nov-07, at 4:15 PM, Bob Eager wrote: > ** Reply to note from Toby Thain Sat, 17 Nov > 2007 12:44:53 -0200 > >> On 17-Nov-07, at 11:21 AM, Bob Eager wrote: >> >>> ** Reply to note from Toby Thain Sat, 17 Nov >>> 2007 11:08:32 -0200 >>> >>>> On 2-Nov-07, at 11:59 AM, Bob Eager wrote: >>>>> ** Reply to note from Brantley Coile Fri, 2 >>>>> Nov 2007 09:42:47 -0400 >>>>>> Wes, >>>>>> Is this the book you are thinking of? >>>>>> >>>>>> http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/ >>>>>> index.html >>>>> >>>>> Probably was! >>>>> >>>>> I just bought a copy on eBay a couple of weeks ago, and have just >>>>> read it >>>>> cover to cover. >>>> >>>> There's more than one edition. ... > I have the earlier "Computer Engineering" and the 2nd edition of > "Art of > Digital Design". I have now ordered the 1998 edition of "Computer > Engineering". I look forward to all of the stuff that was too late > for the > first edition. Bob, Sorry! I think I was actually talking about a different Bell title. I checked my past orders and found the following: Author: Bell, C. Gordon; Newell, Allen Title: Computer Structures: Readings and Examples Author: Siewiorek, Daniel; Bell, C. Gordon; Newell, Allen, Title: Computer Structures: Principles and Examples Both of these contain many architectural case studies (each book covers a different set). And both should be findable in this list: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults? an=bell&sts=t&tn=computer+structures I also have Computer Engineering but it's a different book! Sorry again about the confusion. --Toby > > > Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpetts at operamail.com Thu Nov 1 02:25:00 2007 From: jpetts at operamail.com (James Petts) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:00 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs Message-ID: <20071031162500.832803AA648@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: asbesto > To: "Al Kossow" > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 > > > Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? > > Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. > > I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. > > I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very > damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his > own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be > connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, > having some cdrom interfaces. > > sorry for my bad english :) > > Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs for me. From asbesto at freaknet.org Thu Nov 1 02:47:36 2007 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:47:36 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs In-Reply-To: <20071031162500.832803AA648@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20071031162500.832803AA648@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20071031164736.GB22786@freaknet.org> Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 08:25:00AM -0800, James Petts wrote: > > > > Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? > > > Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. > > > I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. > > I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very > > damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his > > own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be > Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor > resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs > for me. A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had this horrible problems with "SEANTRAM" and "PRINCO" cd's; the princo cd was literally unreadable after only 6 months of age! -- [ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto - http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE! - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ] From imp at bsdimp.com Thu Nov 1 02:56:29 2007 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:56:29 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs In-Reply-To: <20071031162500.832803AA648@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20071031162500.832803AA648@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20071031.105629.104123720.imp@bsdimp.com> From: "James Petts" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:00 -0800 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: asbesto > > To: "Al Kossow" > > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 > > > > > > Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > > > Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? > > > Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. > > > I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. > > > > I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very > > damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his > > own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be > > connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, > > having some cdrom interfaces. > > > > sorry for my bad english :) > > > > > > Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor > resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs > for me. I've used cdparanoia to recover badly damaged audio disks. Are there not similar programs for data disks? Warner From angus at fairhaven.za.net Thu Nov 1 03:15:09 2007 From: angus at fairhaven.za.net (Angus Robinson) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:15:09 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs In-Reply-To: <20071031.105629.104123720.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20071031162500.832803AA648@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> <20071031.105629.104123720.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: <4728B81D.40304@fairhaven.za.net> Warner Losh wrote: > From: "James Petts" > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:00 -0800 > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: asbesto >>> To: "Al Kossow" >>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs >>> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 >>> >>> >>> Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >>>>> >>>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >>>> >>> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >>> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >>> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >>> connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, >>> having some cdrom interfaces. >>> >>> sorry for my bad english :) >>> >>> >>> >> Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor >> resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs >> for me. >> > > I've used cdparanoia to recover badly damaged audio disks. Are there > not similar programs for data disks? > > Warner > Dont know how true it is but the local paper here was running a story about some students using goverment condoms to fix scratched cd's. They worked for 3 uses. Never tried it as most of the stuff i have on cd i can get again. Regards, Angus > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wb at freebie.xs4all.nl Thu Nov 1 04:09:11 2007 From: wb at freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:09:11 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs In-Reply-To: <20071031164736.GB22786@freaknet.org> References: <20071031162500.832803AA648@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> <20071031164736.GB22786@freaknet.org> Message-ID: <20071031180911.GA25151@freebie.xs4all.nl> Quoting asbesto, who wrote on Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 05:47:36PM +0100 .. > Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 08:25:00AM -0800, James Petts wrote: > > > > > > Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? > > > > Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. > > > > I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. > > > I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very > > > damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his > > > own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be > > Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor > > resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs > > for me. > > A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the > cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had Note that the reflecting layer in factory produced CDs is aluminium. A thin layer of lacquer is protecting the reflector. As an interesting eye opening experiment I dumped one of these AOL promo CDs we used to be bombarded with in a bowl of lukewarm water. Plain water, 25 degrC. Within a day the aluminium layer had holes in it the size of dimes. Apparantly the protective lacquer was very substandard. El-cheapo CDR can have similar characteristics. Wilko From jpetts at operamail.com Thu Nov 1 04:19:05 2007 From: jpetts at operamail.com (James Petts) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:19:05 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs Message-ID: <20071031181905.28E003AA646@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wilko Bulte" > To: asbesto > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:09:11 +0100 > > > Quoting asbesto, who wrote on Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 05:47:36PM +0100 .. > > Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 08:25:00AM -0800, James Petts wrote: > > > > > > > > Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of > > recovering flaky CDs? > > > > > Easiest first step is try using different kinds of > > CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. > > > > > I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. > > > > I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very > > > > damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his > > > > own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be > > > Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor > > > resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs > > > for me. > > > > A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the > > cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had > > Note that the reflecting layer in factory produced CDs is aluminium. > A thin layer of lacquer is protecting the reflector. > > As an interesting eye opening experiment I dumped one of these AOL promo CDs > we used to be bombarded with in a bowl of lukewarm water. Plain water, 25 > degrC. Within a day the aluminium layer had holes in it the size of dimes. > Apparantly the protective lacquer was very substandard. > > El-cheapo CDR can have similar characteristics. And it is the top side (label side) of the CD that is most fragile, not the reading side. There is about 0.5 mm of plastic that can take some pretty fearsome scratches and still be readable, or at least resurfaceable (is that a word?). From asbesto at freaknet.org Thu Nov 1 04:28:46 2007 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:28:46 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs In-Reply-To: <20071031181905.28E003AA646@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20071031181905.28E003AA646@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20071031182845.GA24966@freaknet.org> Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:19:05AM -0800, James Petts wrote: > > > A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the > > > cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had > > degrC. Within a day the aluminium layer had holes in it the size of dimes. > > Apparantly the protective lacquer was very substandard. > And it is the top side (label side) of the CD that is most > fragile, not the reading side. There is about 0.5 mm of YES - and the oxidation I had was on the top "label" side, affecting also the reading side :( p.s. the lack of "reply-to" in this mailing list is very, very annoying, because it generate a lot of duplicates. 8( -- [ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto - http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE! - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ] From wb at freebie.xs4all.nl Thu Nov 1 05:43:56 2007 From: wb at freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:43:56 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs In-Reply-To: <20071031182845.GA24966@freaknet.org> References: <20071031181905.28E003AA646@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> <20071031182845.GA24966@freaknet.org> Message-ID: <20071031194356.GA25839@freebie.xs4all.nl> Quoting asbesto, who wrote on Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 07:28:46PM +0100 .. > Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:19:05AM -0800, James Petts wrote: > > > > > A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the > > > > cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had > > > > degrC. Within a day the aluminium layer had holes in it the size of dimes. > > > Apparantly the protective lacquer was very substandard. > > And it is the top side (label side) of the CD that is most > > fragile, not the reading side. There is about 0.5 mm of > > YES - and the oxidation I had was on the top "label" side, > affecting also the reading side :( Yep, the protective lacquer is on the label/top side. The bottom part aka the disc itself is polycarbonate (IIRC) > p.s. > > the lack of "reply-to" in this mailing list is very, very > annoying, because it generate a lot of duplicates. procmail is you friend. At least it is my friend ;) Wilko From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Thu Nov 1 17:59:14 2007 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 20:59:14 +1300 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs In-Reply-To: <4728B81D.40304@fairhaven.za.net> References: <20071031162500.832803AA648@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> <20071031.105629.104123720.imp@bsdimp.com> <4728B81D.40304@fairhaven.za.net> Message-ID: <200711012059.15021.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> On Thursday 01 November 2007 06:15, Angus Robinson wrote: > Warner Losh wrote: > > From: "James Petts" > > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:00 -0800 > > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: asbesto > >>> To: "Al Kossow" > >>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > >>> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 > >>> > >>> Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: > >>>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky > >>>>> CDs? > >>>> > >> > >> Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor > >> resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs > >> for me. > > > > I've used cdparanoia to recover badly damaged audio disks. Are there > > not similar programs for data disks? > > > > Warner > > Dont know how true it is but the local paper here was running a story > about some students using goverment condoms to fix scratched cd's. They > worked for 3 uses. Never tried it as most of the stuff i have on cd i > can get again. Ignoring the inevitable ribald humour arising from the concept - "supersized, for all the government d*ckheads" ... ;) A friend of mine suggested using a silver polisher to resurface the plastic when the scratches prevent it from being readable, but I've never tried it. Wesley Parish > > Regards, > Angus > > > _______________________________________________ > > TUHS mailing list > > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom of the foolish. ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Nov 1 18:03:32 2007 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:03:32 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs In-Reply-To: <20071031.105629.104123720.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20071031162500.832803AA648@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> <20071031.105629.104123720.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: <20071101090332.4a022d18@SirToby.dinner41.local> On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:56:29 -0600 (MDT) Warner Losh wrote: > I've used cdparanoia to recover badly damaged audio disks. Are there > not similar programs for data disks? cdrdao can do similar things for audio and data disks. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pete at dunnington.plus.com Thu Nov 1 23:11:07 2007 From: pete at dunnington.plus.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 13:11:07 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs In-Reply-To: <20071101090332.4a022d18@SirToby.dinner41.local> References: <20071031162500.832803AA648@ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> <20071031.105629.104123720.imp@bsdimp.com> <20071101090332.4a022d18@SirToby.dinner41.local> Message-ID: <4729D06B.5030102@dunnington.plus.com> On 01/11/2007 08:03, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:56:29 -0600 (MDT) > Warner Losh wrote: > >> I've used cdparanoia to recover badly damaged audio disks. Are there >> not similar programs for data disks? > cdrdao can do similar things for audio and data disks. Yes, cdrdao uses the cdparanoia libraries for reading. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es Tue Nov 6 03:07:24 2007 From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (Jose R. Valverde) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 18:07:24 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs (was: mach & nextstep.) In-Reply-To: <20071030223654.GA72133@dereel.lemis.com> References: <20071011151401.1dff3613@veda.cnb.uam.es> <20071030223654.GA72133@dereel.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20071105180724.17fd911e@veda.cnb.uam.es> On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:36:55 +1100 Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 11 October 2007 at 15:14:01 +0200, Jose R. Valverde wrote: > >> I *think* I have. > > Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? It depends. If the content is not damaged then you can probably "wipe" them. I mean, look at the printed side: if there are scratches there chances are the data is damaged as well and you may be out of luck (depends on whether it affects the catalog). However, if the printed surface is not terribly damaged, and the problem is that the mirror-looking side is scratched then your data may be healthy and it is surface irregularity that distorts the laser. There are kits out there that can wipe the surface and render it again smooth. I used one such kit several years ago with good results. Casually, it's on the shelf in front of my eyes now.. lemme see... It says CURTIS disk restore. Radial scratch repair and cleaning system for CD/DVD discs. www.curtis.com According to the box it will not repair gauges, deep scratches, label-side damaging or warping. j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From neozeed at gmail.com Sat Nov 10 05:27:31 2007 From: neozeed at gmail.com (Jason Stevens) Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:27:31 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Unix on the 370.... Message-ID: <46b366130711091127r445c6dd8ucb3ae4384eb7bb1a@mail.gmail.com> I know, this is completley off the wall, and odd at best. But are there any surviving copies of v6, that ran on the 370? I understand there were several ports, one running on UTS, another on bare metal before AIX was ported... Did any of these survive? From lorddoomicus at mac.com Wed Nov 14 12:45:16 2007 From: lorddoomicus at mac.com (Lord Doomicus) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:45:16 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Multics has been open sourced! Message-ID: <3A245BA6-90BE-4759-93F1-E5088A265AF0@mac.com> More info here: http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/ - Derrik Derrik Walker v2.0, RHCE lorddoomicus at mac.com http://www.doomd.net "I want to be on the list ... I try but they never put me on" -- Steve Wozniak on "being on the list" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cowan at ccil.org Wed Nov 14 14:23:40 2007 From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:23:40 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Multics has been open sourced! In-Reply-To: <3A245BA6-90BE-4759-93F1-E5088A265AF0@mac.com> References: <3A245BA6-90BE-4759-93F1-E5088A265AF0@mac.com> Message-ID: <20071114042340.GG13650@mercury.ccil.org> Lord Doomicus scripsit: > More info here: > > http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/ > I just submitted the license to license-discuss at opensource.org, in order to start the process rolling to make code officially OSI Certified open source. -- There are three kinds of people in the world: John Cowan those who can count, cowan at ccil.org and those who can't. From imp at bsdimp.com Wed Nov 14 14:29:51 2007 From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:29:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: [TUHS] Multics has been open sourced! In-Reply-To: <20071114042340.GG13650@mercury.ccil.org> References: <3A245BA6-90BE-4759-93F1-E5088A265AF0@mac.com> <20071114042340.GG13650@mercury.ccil.org> Message-ID: <20071113.212951.-861031073.imp@bsdimp.com> In message: <20071114042340.GG13650 at mercury.ccil.org> John Cowan writes: : Lord Doomicus scripsit: : : > More info here: : > : > http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/ : > : : I just submitted the license to license-discuss at opensource.org, : in order to start the process rolling to make code officially : OSI Certified open source. It is a variant on BSD, it should be easy. Is there an easy way to download all of the sources? Some of them apparently need to have the copyright stripped off of them to be useful (or modified to use the proper comment characters). Warner From cbbahn at droog.sdf-eu.org Thu Nov 1 18:50:42 2007 From: cbbahn at droog.sdf-eu.org (Christopher Bahn) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:50:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 43, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I have the same problem with an old floppy disk (2,5). Any Ideas what I can do? Thanks a lot and kid regards, Christopher On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, tuhs-request at minnie.tuhs.org wrote: > Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:00:01 +1000 > From: tuhs-request at minnie.tuhs.org > Reply-To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: TUHS Digest, Vol 43, Issue 1 > > Send TUHS mailing list submissions to > tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tuhs-request at minnie.tuhs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tuhs-owner at minnie.tuhs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of TUHS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (asbesto) > 2. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (James Petts) > 3. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (asbesto) > 4. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (Warner Losh) > 5. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (Angus Robinson) > 6. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (Wilko Bulte) > 7. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (James Petts) > 8. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (asbesto) > 9. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (Wilko Bulte) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 > From: asbesto > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: Al Kossow > Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20071031092233.GC14989 at freaknet.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 > > Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: > >>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. > > I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very > damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his > own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be > connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, > having some cdrom interfaces. > > sorry for my bad english :) > > > > > -- > [ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab] > [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto - http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] > [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE! - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] > [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:00 -0800 > From: "James Petts" > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: asbesto > Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20071031162500.832803AA648 at ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: asbesto >> To: "Al Kossow" >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs >> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 >> >> >> Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >> >>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >> >> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >> connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, >> having some cdrom interfaces. >> >> sorry for my bad english :) >> >> > > Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor > resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs > for me. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:47:36 +0100 > From: asbesto > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: James Petts > Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20071031164736.GB22786 at freaknet.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 > > Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 08:25:00AM -0800, James Petts wrote: > >>>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >>>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >>> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >>> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >>> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >> Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor >> resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs >> for me. > > A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the > cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had > this horrible problems with "SEANTRAM" and "PRINCO" cd's; the > princo cd was literally unreadable after only 6 months of age! > > > -- > [ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab] > [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto - http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] > [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE! - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] > [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:56:29 -0600 (MDT) > From: Warner Losh > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: jpetts at operamail.com > Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org, asbesto at freaknet.org > Message-ID: <20071031.105629.104123720.imp at bsdimp.com> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii > > From: "James Petts" > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:00 -0800 > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: asbesto >>> To: "Al Kossow" >>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs >>> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 >>> >>> >>> Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >>> >>>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >>>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >>> >>> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >>> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >>> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >>> connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, >>> having some cdrom interfaces. >>> >>> sorry for my bad english :) >>> >>> >> >> Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor >> resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs >> for me. > > I've used cdparanoia to recover badly damaged audio disks. Are there > not similar programs for data disks? > > Warner > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:15:09 +0200 > From: Angus Robinson > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: Warner Losh > Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org, asbesto at freaknet.org > Message-ID: <4728B81D.40304 at fairhaven.za.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Warner Losh wrote: >> From: "James Petts" >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs >> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:00 -0800 >> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: asbesto >>>> To: "Al Kossow" >>>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs >>>> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 >>>> >>>> >>>> Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >>>>>> >>>>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>>>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >>>>> >>>> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >>>> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >>>> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >>>> connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, >>>> having some cdrom interfaces. >>>> >>>> sorry for my bad english :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor >>> resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs >>> for me. >>> >> >> I've used cdparanoia to recover badly damaged audio disks. Are there >> not similar programs for data disks? >> >> Warner >> > > Dont know how true it is but the local paper here was running a story > about some students using goverment condoms to fix scratched cd's. They > worked for 3 uses. Never tried it as most of the stuff i have on cd i > can get again. > > Regards, > Angus > >> _______________________________________________ >> TUHS mailing list >> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20071031/4f821c9f/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:09:11 +0100 > From: Wilko Bulte > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: asbesto > Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20071031180911.GA25151 at freebie.xs4all.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Quoting asbesto, who wrote on Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 05:47:36PM +0100 .. >> Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 08:25:00AM -0800, James Petts wrote: >> >>>>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >>>>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>>>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >>>> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >>>> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >>>> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >>> Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor >>> resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs >>> for me. >> >> A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the >> cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had > > Note that the reflecting layer in factory produced CDs is aluminium. > A thin layer of lacquer is protecting the reflector. > > As an interesting eye opening experiment I dumped one of these AOL promo CDs > we used to be bombarded with in a bowl of lukewarm water. Plain water, 25 > degrC. Within a day the aluminium layer had holes in it the size of dimes. > Apparantly the protective lacquer was very substandard. > > El-cheapo CDR can have similar characteristics. > > Wilko > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:19:05 -0800 > From: "James Petts" > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: "Wilko Bulte" > Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20071031181905.28E003AA646 at ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Wilko Bulte" >> To: asbesto >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs >> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:09:11 +0100 >> >> >> Quoting asbesto, who wrote on Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 05:47:36PM +0100 .. >>> Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 08:25:00AM -0800, James Petts wrote: >>> >>>>>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of >>> recovering flaky CDs? >>>>>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of >>> CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>>>>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >>>>> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >>>>> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >>>>> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >>>> Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor >>>> resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs >>>> for me. >>> >>> A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the >>> cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had >> >> Note that the reflecting layer in factory produced CDs is aluminium. >> A thin layer of lacquer is protecting the reflector. >> >> As an interesting eye opening experiment I dumped one of these AOL promo CDs >> we used to be bombarded with in a bowl of lukewarm water. Plain water, 25 >> degrC. Within a day the aluminium layer had holes in it the size of dimes. >> Apparantly the protective lacquer was very substandard. >> >> El-cheapo CDR can have similar characteristics. > > And it is the top side (label side) of the CD that is most > fragile, not the reading side. There is about 0.5 mm of > plastic that can take some pretty fearsome scratches and > still be readable, or at least resurfaceable (is that a > word?). > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:28:46 +0100 > From: asbesto > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: James Petts > Cc: Wilko Bulte , tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20071031182845.GA24966 at freaknet.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 > > Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:19:05AM -0800, James Petts wrote: > >>>> A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the >>>> cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had > >>> degrC. Within a day the aluminium layer had holes in it the size of dimes. >>> Apparantly the protective lacquer was very substandard. >> And it is the top side (label side) of the CD that is most >> fragile, not the reading side. There is about 0.5 mm of > > YES - and the oxidation I had was on the top "label" side, > affecting also the reading side :( > > p.s. > > the lack of "reply-to" in this mailing list is very, very > annoying, because it generate a lot of duplicates. > > 8( > > -- > [ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab] > [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto - http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] > [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE! - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] > [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:43:56 +0100 > From: Wilko Bulte > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: asbesto > Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20071031194356.GA25839 at freebie.xs4all.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Quoting asbesto, who wrote on Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 07:28:46PM +0100 .. >> Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:19:05AM -0800, James Petts wrote: >> >>>>> A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the >>>>> cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had >> >>>> degrC. Within a day the aluminium layer had holes in it the size of dimes. >>>> Apparantly the protective lacquer was very substandard. >>> And it is the top side (label side) of the CD that is most >>> fragile, not the reading side. There is about 0.5 mm of >> >> YES - and the oxidation I had was on the top "label" side, >> affecting also the reading side :( > > Yep, the protective lacquer is on the label/top side. The bottom > part aka the disc itself is polycarbonate (IIRC) > >> p.s. >> >> the lack of "reply-to" in this mailing list is very, very >> annoying, because it generate a lot of duplicates. > > procmail is you friend. At least it is my friend ;) > > Wilko > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > > End of TUHS Digest, Vol 43, Issue 1 > *********************************** > Dr. Christopher Bahn Center for Urban and Real Estate Management (CUREM) Programme Manager Schanzeneggstr. 1 8002 Zuerich Switzerland Phone: 0041-44-2089998 Fax:0041-44-2089990 cbbahn at sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From cornelius at keck.cx Wed Nov 14 04:07:40 2007 From: cornelius at keck.cx (Cornelius Keck) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:07:40 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Multics source code... Message-ID: <200711131807.lADI7n218348@mail.keck.cx> According to this German report: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/98910 Multics source code is available for download at http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/source/Multics_Internet_Server/Multics_sources.html More information at http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/, and http://www.multicians.org/multics.html Regards, Cornelius --- Cornelius Keck ----> cornelius at keck.cx / usenet54 at keck.us / ckeck at texoma.net From angus at fairhaven.za.net Thu Nov 15 03:35:38 2007 From: angus at fairhaven.za.net (Angus Robinson) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:35:38 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] MIT Releases the Source of MULTICS, Father of UNIX Message-ID: <473B31EA.8070302@fairhaven.za.net> Not to sure if anybody on the list has seen this ? Or if anybody has the hardware to run it. http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/source/Multics_Internet_Server/Multics_sources.html From milov at uwlax.edu Thu Nov 15 03:36:49 2007 From: milov at uwlax.edu (Milo Velimirovic) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:36:49 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] MIT Releases the Source of MULTICS, Father of UNIX In-Reply-To: <473B31EA.8070302@fairhaven.za.net> References: <473B31EA.8070302@fairhaven.za.net> Message-ID: Time for someone to step up to the task for writing a GE635 645 module for simh? I know I'm not up to it. :( - Milo On Nov 14, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Angus Robinson wrote: > Not to sure if anybody on the list has seen this ? Or if anybody has > the > hardware to run it. > > http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/source/Multics_Internet_Server/Multics_sources.html > > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs -- Milo Velimirović, Unix Computer Network Administrator 608.785.6618 Office - 608.386.2817 Cell University of Wisconsin - La Crosse La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 48 N 91 13 53 W From aek at bitsavers.org Thu Nov 15 03:55:02 2007 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:55:02 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] MIT Releases the Source of MULTICS, Father of UNIX In-Reply-To: References: <473B31EA.8070302@fairhaven.za.net> Message-ID: <473B3676.50901@bitsavers.org> Milo Velimirovic wrote: > Time for someone to step up to the task for writing a GE635 645 module > for simh? 12.5 doesn't run on 645's, you need a 6180 / DPS-8, which is not as well documented. http://orangesquid.net/projects/ge635/ is the start of one. lots of docs at bitsavers.org/pdf/honeywell under multics, dps-8 and series6000 to give you an idea of the size of the project. OT.. is Jim Lowe still at La Crosse? If so, say hi for me.. From cornelius at mail.keck.cx Mon Nov 19 04:43:08 2007 From: cornelius at mail.keck.cx (cornelius at mail.keck.cx) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:43:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: [TUHS] Multics has been open sourced! In-Reply-To: <20071113.212951.-861031073.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <3A245BA6-90BE-4759-93F1-E5088A265AF0@mac.com> <20071114042340.GG13650@mercury.ccil.org> <20071113.212951.-861031073.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: What about using httrack (-> www.httrack.com) to create a local copy of the site, then "cp -r" the source directory tree from it's cloned location inside the copy to a different area for inspection? Cornelius On Tue, 13 Nov 2007, M. Warner Losh wrote: > Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:29:51 -0700 (MST) > From: M. Warner Losh > To: cowan at ccil.org > Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Multics has been open sourced! > > In message: <20071114042340.GG13650 at mercury.ccil.org> > John Cowan writes: > : Lord Doomicus scripsit: > : > : > More info here: > : > > : > http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/ > : > > : > : I just submitted the license to license-discuss at opensource.org, > : in order to start the process rolling to make code officially > : OSI Certified open source. > > It is a variant on BSD, it should be easy. > > Is there an easy way to download all of the sources? Some of them > apparently need to have the copyright stripped off of them to be > useful (or modified to use the proper comment characters). > > Warner > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > -- Cornelius Keck --> cornelius at keck.cx / usenet54 at keck.us / ckeck at texoma.net From tfb at tfeb.org Wed Nov 21 23:35:53 2007 From: tfb at tfeb.org (Tim Bradshaw) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:35:53 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] test / [ Message-ID: Does anyone know (remember) which Unices had .../bin/[ be a link to .../bin/test. I remember this being the case, but it is not so on any recent Solaris. It is the case on my Mac, so in at least one BSD derivative. I looked through a 7th edition tarball from the archive and it's not the case there. So my guess is that it is a BSDism, and it probably was the case in SunOS 4 and before, and I guess on at least 4.2BSD & later. Thanks --tim From jcapp at anteil.com Wed Nov 21 23:51:04 2007 From: jcapp at anteil.com (Jim Capp) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:51:04 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] test / [ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071121135104.GB14401@anteil.com> On Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 01:35:53PM +0000, Tim Bradshaw wrote: > Does anyone know (remember) which Unices had .../bin/[ be a link > to .../bin/test. I remember this being the case, but it is not so on > any recent Solaris. It is the case on my Mac, so in at least one BSD > derivative. I looked through a 7th edition tarball from the archive > and it's not the case there. So my guess is that it is a BSDism, and > it probably was the case in SunOS 4 and before, and I guess on at > least 4.2BSD & later. > > Thanks > > --tim I remember using /bin/[ in SCO Xenix and SCO Unix, and AT&T SYS III & SYS V Jim > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > From arnold at skeeve.com Sun Nov 25 06:51:10 2007 From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:51:10 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] open solaris vi? Message-ID: <200711242051.lAOKpAtO004571@skeeve.com> Has anyone tried / succeeded at getting the OpenSolaris ex/vi to compile and/or run under Linux? Thanks, Arnold From cowan at ccil.org Sun Nov 25 16:43:36 2007 From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 01:43:36 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] open solaris vi? In-Reply-To: <200711242051.lAOKpAtO004571@skeeve.com> References: <200711242051.lAOKpAtO004571@skeeve.com> Message-ID: <20071125064336.GP13281@mercury.ccil.org> Aharon Robbins scripsit: > Has anyone tried / succeeded at getting the OpenSolaris ex/vi to compile > and/or run under Linux? I made a stab at it under Cygwin, but then switched to the Heirloom Toolkit version, with which these very words are being written. -- Here lies the Christian, John Cowan judge, and poet Peter, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Who broke the laws of God cowan at ccil.org and man and metre. From jsnader at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 26 00:23:43 2007 From: jsnader at ix.netcom.com (Jon Snader) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 09:23:43 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] open solaris vi? In-Reply-To: <200711242051.lAOKpAtO004571@skeeve.com> References: <200711242051.lAOKpAtO004571@skeeve.com> Message-ID: <20071125142343.GA89914@ix.netcom.com> On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 10:51:10PM +0200, Aharon Robbins wrote: > Has anyone tried / succeeded at getting the OpenSolaris ex/vi to compile > and/or run under Linux? > Gunnar Ritter has ported Solaris vi under his Unix Heirloom Project. You can find the vi page at http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/ jcs From gunnarr at acm.org Mon Nov 26 03:05:33 2007 From: gunnarr at acm.org (Gunnar Ritter) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:05:33 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] open solaris vi? In-Reply-To: <20071125142343.GA89914@ix.netcom.com> References: <200711242051.lAOKpAtO004571@skeeve.com> <20071125142343.GA89914@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <4749ab5d.xZRPnfiQn4nAY/Wm%gunnarr@acm.org> Jon Snader wrote: > On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 10:51:10PM +0200, Aharon Robbins wrote: > > Has anyone tried / succeeded at getting the OpenSolaris ex/vi to compile > > and/or run under Linux? > > > > Gunnar Ritter has ported Solaris vi under his Unix Heirloom > Project. Not really :-) But nothing has changed since a year ago: . Gunnar