From wkt at tuhs.org Thu Apr 9 17:22:37 2009 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:22:37 +1000 Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix Message-ID: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> All, I've had two papers about early UNIX accepted. One is a paper about our 1st Edition UNIX restoration for the IEEE Journal of the History of Computing, and the second is a paper about several early UNIX restorations including 1st Ed for the Usenix 2009 technical conference. This means that I'll be attending the Usenix conference in San Diego in June, so if anybody else is attending I'd love to catch up with you guys. Cheers all and again thanks for all the hard work and the fantastic results! Warren Toomey From cowan at ccil.org Thu Apr 9 23:21:54 2009 From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 09:21:54 -0400 Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> Warren Toomey scripsit: > I've had two papers about early UNIX accepted. One is a paper about our > 1st Edition UNIX restoration for the IEEE Journal of the History of Computing, > and the second is a paper about several early UNIX restorations including 1st > Ed for the Usenix 2009 technical conference. Will you be able to put preprints on your own site or somewhere, so we can read 'em without having to worry about the paywall? -- If you understand, John Cowan things are just as they are; http://www.ccil.org/~cowan if you do not understand, cowan at ccil.org things are just as they are. From imp at bsdimp.com Fri Apr 10 00:47:21 2009 From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 08:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> Message-ID: <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> In message: <20090409132154.GC4909 at mercury.ccil.org> John Cowan writes: : Warren Toomey scripsit: : : > I've had two papers about early UNIX accepted. One is a paper about our : > 1st Edition UNIX restoration for the IEEE Journal of the History of Computing, : > and the second is a paper about several early UNIX restorations including 1st : > Ed for the Usenix 2009 technical conference. : : Will you be able to put preprints on your own site or somewhere, so we can : read 'em without having to worry about the paywall? Clearly we'd make good reviewers for the papers :) Warner From doug at remarque.org Fri Apr 10 04:43:09 2009 From: doug at remarque.org (Doug Merritt) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <20090409184309.475A05A523@remarque.org> > I've had two papers about early UNIX accepted. One is a paper about our >1st Edition UNIX restoration for the IEEE Journal of the History of Computing, >and the second is a paper about several early UNIX restorations including 1st >Ed for the Usenix 2009 technical conference. Excellent, congrats! I've been meaning to ask you what was up with your papers. >This means that I'll be attending the Usenix conference in San Diego in >June, so if anybody else is attending I'd love to catch up with you guys. I haven't done Usenix in perhaps 20 years, but maybe I should just for this. >Cheers all and again thanks for all the hard work and the fantastic results! Indeed, thanks to one and all! Doug -- Professional Wild-eyed Visionary Member, Crusaders for a Better Tomorrow From wkt at tuhs.org Fri Apr 10 17:44:28 2009 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:44:28 +1000 Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 08:47:21AM -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > : Will you be able to put preprints on your own site or somewhere, so we can > : read 'em without having to worry about the paywall? > > Clearly we'd make good reviewers for the papers :) Here is a very early draft: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Z/usendraft.pdf. Lots of typos etc. Please don't distribute this. Read, and eat the bits afterwards. I will remove the document in a day or so. Cheers, Warren From cowan at ccil.org Sat Apr 11 02:23:19 2009 From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:23:19 -0400 Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <20090410162319.GB12970@mercury.ccil.org> Warren Toomey scripsit: > Here is a very early draft: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Z/usendraft.pdf. > Lots of typos etc. Thanks; fascinating! Do the Net-2-derived BSDs (including Darwin) really count as Unix-derived? I thought they were fairly free of AT&T code now, other than headers and the like. Conceptually, of course, they are Unix-derived, but then so is Linux. It would be snazzy to restore the classical typography of Unix as UNIX in your paper. -- John Cowan cowan at ccil.org http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Statistics don't help a great deal in making important decisions. Most people have more than the average number of feet, but I'm not about to start a company selling shoes in threes. --Ross Gardler From cowan at ccil.org Sat Apr 11 02:31:09 2009 From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:31:09 -0400 Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <20090410163108.GC12970@mercury.ccil.org> Warren Toomey scripsit: [Sorry for the double reply; I zapped this part and sent.] > Please don't distribute this. Read, and eat the bits afterwards. I will > remove the document in a day or so. You do realize, I suppose, that due to the "packrat nature of computer enthusiasts", there will be plenty of copies of this early explication of the Classical School of Unix reclamation for software archaeologists to find ca. 2050? -- He played King Lear as though John Cowan someone had played the ace. http://www.ccil.org/~cowan --Eugene Field From imp at bsdimp.com Sat Apr 11 03:21:35 2009 From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:21:35 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <20090410162319.GB12970@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090410162319.GB12970@mercury.ccil.org> Message-ID: <20090410.112135.387193198.imp@bsdimp.com> In message: <20090410162319.GB12970 at mercury.ccil.org> John Cowan writes: : Warren Toomey scripsit: : : > Here is a very early draft: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Z/usendraft.pdf. : > Lots of typos etc. : : Thanks; fascinating! : : Do the Net-2-derived BSDs (including Darwin) really count as Unix-derived? Yes. : I thought they were fairly free of AT&T code now, other than headers and : the like. Conceptually, of course, they are Unix-derived, but then so : is Linux. There's 24 files that have AT&T copyright notice on them that are still present in the code. And there's dozens of files in SYS V that are bsd-derived that now have the proper UCB copyright notice. The link to Unix is direct and explicit in the 4.4-lite derived BSDs, unlike Linux, which has no AT&T code to speak of in it. Also, technically speaking, all the BSDs (including Darwin) are 4.4-lite derived these days, not net-2 derived, since all the projects switched to 4.4-lite as apart of the ucb/at&t settlement. See for example from FreeBSD: * Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993 * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. * (c) UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. * All or some portions of this file are derived from material licensed * to the University of California by American Telephone and Telegraph * Co. or Unix System Laboratories, Inc. and are reproduced herein with * the permission of UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. * is found in: init_main.c kern_acct.c kern_clock.c kern_descrip.c kern_exit.c kern_fork.c kern_prot.c kern_resource.c kern_shutdown.c kern_sig.c kern_subr.c kern_synch.c kern_timeout.c sched_4bsd.c subr_param.c subr_prf.c sys_generic.c tty_info.c vfs_export.c vfs_lookup.c vfs_mount.c vfs_subr.c vfs_syscalls.c vfs_vnops.c All these files are explicitly OK based on the settlement of the UCB AT&T lawsuit. : It would be snazzy to restore the classical typography of Unix as : UNIX in your paper. That would be cool. Warner From brad at heeltoe.com Sat Apr 11 06:31:43 2009 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:31:43 -0400 Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <20090410162319.GB12970@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090410162319.GB12970@mercury.ccil.org> Message-ID: <6449.1239395503@mini> Nice job. I enjoyed reading it. John Cowan wrote: > >Do the Net-2-derived BSDs (including Darwin) really count as Unix-derived? I would agree with this. I think "Mach people" would bristle a little at that. They tend to think of unix as a bag they are forced to carry around. after reading the paper I wish I had an 11/20 to try and run v1 :-) A fun paper to read. I'm sure it will be well received. -brad From lyricalnanoha at usotsuki.hoshinet.org Sat Apr 11 06:38:51 2009 From: lyricalnanoha at usotsuki.hoshinet.org (lyricalnanoha) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <6449.1239395503@mini> References: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090410162319.GB12970@mercury.ccil.org> <6449.1239395503@mini> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Brad Parker wrote: > > Nice job. I enjoyed reading it. > > John Cowan wrote: >> >> Do the Net-2-derived BSDs (including Darwin) really count as Unix-derived? > > I would agree with this. I think "Mach people" would bristle a little > at that. They tend to think of unix as a bag they are forced to carry > around. > > after reading the paper I wish I had an 11/20 to try and run v1 :-) Heh, yeah, certainly it wouldn't be very easy to get it up on something more familiar to *me*, like...an x86 :/ -uso. From wkt at tuhs.org Sat Apr 11 08:28:39 2009 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 08:28:39 +1000 Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <20090410162319.GB12970@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090410162319.GB12970@mercury.ccil.org> Message-ID: <20090410222839.GA19150@minnie.tuhs.org> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 12:23:19PM -0400, John Cowan wrote: > Do the Net-2-derived BSDs (including Darwin) really count as Unix-derived? > I thought they were fairly free of AT&T code now, other than headers and > the like. Conceptually, of course, they are Unix-derived, but then so > is Linux. I count "derived" as meaning that I can trace a continuous code lineage from one to the other. So V7 -> 32V -> 3BSD -> 4.xBSD -> 4.4BSD-Lite -> Open Src BSDs. But Linux isn't derived, in this sense. > It would be snazzy to restore the classical typography of Unix as > UNIX in your paper. I'm following the official trademark. I must admit that I dithered in each direction, but then decided to stick to the official, blessed version of the typography. Glad you guys liked the paper. Warren From wkt at tuhs.org Sat Apr 11 08:41:16 2009 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 08:41:16 +1000 Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: References: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090410162319.GB12970@mercury.ccil.org> <6449.1239395503@mini> Message-ID: <20090410224116.GA19359@minnie.tuhs.org> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 04:38:51PM -0400, lyricalnanoha wrote: > > after reading the paper I wish I had an 11/20 to try and run v1 :-) > > Heh, yeah, certainly it wouldn't be very easy to get it up on something > more familiar to *me*, like...an x86 :/ It should be relatively easy, as the Ersatz-11 emulator runs in DOS mode, so you could boot up MS-DOS or OpenDOS, run Ersatz-11 and then V1 on top! Or do you mean a native port :-) Warren From lyricalnanoha at usotsuki.hoshinet.org Sat Apr 11 08:51:35 2009 From: lyricalnanoha at usotsuki.hoshinet.org (lyricalnanoha) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix In-Reply-To: <20090410224116.GA19359@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20090409072237.GA65426@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090409132154.GC4909@mercury.ccil.org> <20090409.084721.954465063.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090410074428.GA95251@minnie.tuhs.org> <20090410162319.GB12970@mercury.ccil.org> <6449.1239395503@mini> <20090410224116.GA19359@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Warren Toomey wrote: > On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 04:38:51PM -0400, lyricalnanoha wrote: >>> after reading the paper I wish I had an 11/20 to try and run v1 :-) >> >> Heh, yeah, certainly it wouldn't be very easy to get it up on something >> more familiar to *me*, like...an x86 :/ > > It should be relatively easy, as the Ersatz-11 emulator runs in DOS mode, > so you could boot up MS-DOS or OpenDOS, run Ersatz-11 and then V1 on top! > > Or do you mean a native port :-) Naturally, I mean native. Though perhaps, still on top of PC DOS. -uso. From wkt at tuhs.org Thu Apr 9 11:56:23 2009 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:56:23 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Usenix this year, anyone? Message-ID: <20090409015623.GA62042@minnie.tuhs.org> All, looks like I will be attending the Usenix technical conference in San Diego in June this year, to present a paper on restoring some of the early Unix artifacts. If anybody else is attending the conference, or is in town, I would very much like to catch up. P.S Unix turns 40 in mid-2009 as well. Happy birthday Unix! Cheers, Warren